Learning Torah with the method prescribed by the s”a harav

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  • #1966615
    square root of 2
    Participant

    The shulchan aruch harav understands “v’shinantam – sheyihiyu mechudadim befecha…” and the mishna in avos “kol hashokeiach davar echad milimudo keilu mischayev benafsho” to be normative halacha, and therefore writes in very strong terms that everyone (except geniuses who can remember a lot quickly) MUST learn a small amount at a time and chzer it many many times until he knows it baal peh (nowadays that it’s written there is an iota of leeway to not know it exactly by heart) then he may go vaiter, but he still must chazer the first perek as often as he needs to remember it. (the gemara in a”z 19a also says it should be done this way.)

    I find it most disheartening, because it means all my life I’ve been learning wrong; moreover this method is hard and I don’t look forward to adopting it henceforth.

    I have never ever heard of any individual or yeshiva that practices this method. Are there any heteirim? Cholkim? Does anyone here study this way?

    #1966805
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The problem with the daf yomi is this that much is learned but little is remembered. It has heen suggested to learn an amed yomi with the halachas on it, so a person will remember what he learned.
    If a person understands what he learned, he will remember it. Learning in a chavrusa with questions and answers should help to remember. Some websites provide questions and answers. Learning a sugya might also work. Currently repeating the same thing multiple times is not very interesting, so people will not do it.

    #1966764
    meir G
    Participant

    you sound like a ben torah and then you write something puzzling! “I have never ever heard of any individual or yeshiva that practices this method. Are there any heteirim? Cholkim? the first line answers your question? and the language heterim & cholkim? if no one you know is learning this way, what does that infer?
    the teretz is , until kollel you basicly follow sidrei hayeshiva with some personal shinuim allowed ( an extra hr for chumash or halacha..) if thats not working for you ask a senior mashgiach for hadracha
    IN KOLLEL you can do whatever works for you – the torah is so big grab whatever speaks to your neshomoh

    #1966834

    meir G>until kollel you basicly follow sidrei hayeshiva with some personal shinuim allowed

    meir, I understand that an institution is allowed to have their own style, but I think personal needs are primary. At least, it is my understanding of Mishlei. If there is a mismatch between a student and an institution and there is no accommodation, the student can choose to leave to another yeshiva. I was taught there are pros and cons in learning in one place v. many. In one place, you’ll get all material systematically, on many places, you get introduced to multiple styles of learning. Ideally (according to the Rav who taught that) you start in one place first and then expand.

    Specifically, on repeating material – psychologists recommend active recall of he material for better moving it from short-term to long-term memory: discuss with hevrusa, each to someone else, practice/show what you learned (maybe brochos, don’t try magical cucumbers as R Eliezer & R Akiva did in their learning).

    #1967387
    square root of 2
    Participant

    @meir g
    Sounds good to me. Which halachik authority are you quoting?

    #1967441
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    For learning sugyas a sefer caled Kesef Nivchar, having in it 160 sugyas, is recommended.

    #1970005
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Square,

    Aryeh Kaplan writes that his peers agreed to learn everything by heart. He says that it was very difficult, but very quickly became easier to do. It got to the point that they were able to memorize whatever they were learning in the same day.

    When I was in yeshiva, I noticed that whenever someone learned the same topic consecutively, (For example, he switched yeshivos and was learning again what he learned the zman Bedford..) They basically knew it verbatim from any point that they picked up the discussion.

    In sum, learning by heart is more about mental preparedness, than it is time consuming. If your motivated, than it is worth trying to fulfill it.

    #1974695
    square root of 2
    Participant

    “When I was in yeshiva, I noticed that whenever someone learned the same topic consecutively, (For example, he switched yeshivos and was learning again what he learned the zman Bedford..) They basically knew it verbatim from any point that they picked up the discussion.”

    Verbatim? I never saw anyone do that.

    “In sum, learning by heart is more about mental preparedness,”
    How do you prepare your mind for it?

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