LED or lost empty dollars?

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  • #1827604

    rightwriter
    Participant

    What’s with these LED bulbs advertising more than 22 years when they burn out faster than incandescent? I mean you are lucky if they stick around for 3 months let alone 22 years! From what I gather they aren’t compatible with the old house wiring. So what are they charging $8 a bulb when they will last for 2 months! Even if they did last 22 year for 8 bucks you won’t even make back the money in savings. Yes you can get it for a dollar at the dollar store but even that’s a lot when they burn out before you get a chance to even review your electric bill…are we going backwards? Because it looks like CFL are the way to go.

    #1827666

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @rightwriter
    The problem isn’t the bulbs, it is your inadequate old wiring,
    Three years ago we replaced 57 75 watt floods in our ceiling cams (yes we have a huge house) on our first floor. We could not use CFL in those recessed ceiling cans.
    Our electric use fell substantially and the bill dropped about $100 per month. We have not had one burn out. I bought bulbs that had a MSRP of $14 in 4 packs at Ocean State Job Lot for $1.25/bulb

    Since then we have converted almost every other bulb in the house to LEDs, and have installed Solar.

    #1827667

    Meno
    Participant

    Where are you paying $8 a bulb? Even when they’re not on sale they’re more like $3.

    I find that about 90% of them do last, and they use less energy than CFL, so you still end up saving a bunch.

    Also they generally look nicer than CFL.

    #1827671

    silentmoishe
    Participant

    R U kidding?
    You must be buying some cheap off brand LEDs!
    I’ve been using them for years now and never had one burn out. Some of my LEDs burn many hours a day and they keep on going and going. Writing this by the light of those LEDs.

    #1827672

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Right Wrong
    What you pay for is what you get. When we remodeled our home 5 years ago, we replaced over 100 ceiling recessed lights (both floods and spots) with LED fixtures. Same for about 20 recessed exterior fixtures in the exterior soffets. Aside from the obvious energy savings (we plan on staying for another 10-15 years) , we are getting older and didn’t want to keep getting up on ladders to frequently replace the incandescent fixtures in our high 10-12 foot ceilings. In five years we’ve had to replace only ONE of those fixtures. The net value (energy payback savings and risk avoidance) clearly made sense for us. If you just have a few easily reached table lamps or only plan on staying in your home a few years, probably less important.

    Your experience suggests you might have used one of the lower quality LEDs flooding the market (from China perhaps) which have a much higher failure rate than quality bulbs and fixtures from Cree, Phillips, Feit etc. Also, as you note, there is a big problem with using LED bulbs in older fixtures, especially if its on a dimmer circuit. For the past decade and perhaps the next year or two, LEDs are the way to go but CFL certainly appear to have a high likelihood of commercialization.
    Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.

    #1827677

    mentsch1
    Participant

    OP
    I Live in an ancient brooklyn house
    I am getting about a year per spotlight bulb whether I spend $3 or $8 per bulb
    My chandelier bulbs are lasting 5 years though

    #1827679

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Where are you paying $8 a bulb? Even when they’re not on sale they’re more like $3.

    I find that about 90% of them do last, and they use less energy than CFL, so you still end up saving a bunch.

    Also they generally look nicer than CFL.

    +3

    #1827680

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    CFLs are on their way out.

    #1827697

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    What does wiring have to do with the lifespan of the LED?

    #1827710

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Froggie: I had the same question. I was told there were lots of potential issues including the wiring itself (i.e. cable types), bulb contacts in older fixtures and the and “quality” of power (i.e. is your home on a feeder subject to voltage frequency fluctuations). The latter may not be a problem with older incandescent lights but is a big issue for LEDs. Circuits wired for dimmers may have frequency issues that are incompatible with the transformer used in higher lumen LED bulbs and can limit the full range of light or result in a “lag” after you turn the switch on/off.

    #1827748

    rightwriter
    Participant

    You can check home Depot prices or Amazon and unless you get them on sale, the brands such as Philips or the like will end up costing you $6 and up for a bulb. Even if you do get them for less it still takes many years for the price you paid to reward you for the savings in electrical bill.

    Of course LED is supposed to be the step up from CFL but first of all CFL are still brighter if you look at the package details and much cheaper than LED. There is no reason for a bulb to cost so much when incandescent used to be 4 for a buck. How long do we have to wait for LED to become the norm and not some breakthrough with high prices.

    Sort of like how flat screens are still called flat screen TV as if it’s something special. What are we comparing it to tube TV’s? Those don’t exist anymore. (Flat screens have gone down in price substantially though).
    Since LED have been around for more than a decade I’m sure it’s as cheap to make as incandescent. But they still make a big fuss over it just to sell it for a lot of money.
    And besides, its a fact that many LED bulbs including the brand names don’t last even close to what it says on the box. You can check tech sites online for that. And personally I’ve used Sunbeam or other American companies and many of them if they hadn’t burnt out they start to flicker which is just as bad maybe worse. It’s an issue with LED and old wiring. So ya unless you are rewiring your whole house which already will be more expensive than using old incandescent then be prepared for this.
    But then again you can see the new streetlight LED which many will flicker from time to time on the street or highway, so while you are at it replace the whole city grid as well.
    So ya most of the time the bulbs aren’t the problem (obviously the Chinese made are bad quality duh) but it’s the compatibility issue with the old wiring and circuits. CFL didn’t have that issue. And btw not a huge saving difference from CFL to LED especially when you factor how much more you’re paying for an LED bulb. The watts difference is minute. And even if you claim LED is lasting you for now, they are advertising 22 years. So even if it lasts 3 years for you, thats nowhere close to 22 and is the same life as incandescent.

    Of course I’m a fan of LED but if they aren’t lasting due to old NEW YORK wiring and grid, then it gets kinda frustrating.

    #1827752

    kollelman
    Participant

    The “year” estimates are at about 2-3 hours of usage a day. Judging from all people I know, 8+ hours/day is much more common. Hence, 22 years is really around 3-5.

    #1827761

    Meno
    Participant

    I just searched home Depot and I could not find a 60w equivalent bulb for more than $5. Most were between $1 and $3. I don’t think I’ve ever paid more than $1.50. I have no idea what you’re complaining about.

    #1827765

    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    We’ve had very few go bad in the past few years. Most of the ones that did go bad were LEDs that weren’t meant for enclosed fixtures but were in enclosed fixtures.

    I saw some for really cheap at an out of town Home Depot that looked too good to be true. I asked an associate if it was a mistake and he said that the local utility company was subsidizing them as their infrastructure was being overused and they wanted to encourage everyone to switch to LEDs which use much less electricity.

    #1827766

    rightwriter
    Participant

    Meno and what about 100watts which are pretty common as well. Did you check those prices? Besides you don’t think $3 for a bulb is a lot when light bulbs are just basic necessities? Especially if they won’t really last you for 22 years…

    #1827858

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Dr. Pepper mentions LEDs not meant for enclosed fixtures being used in them. Most of the cheaper LEDs fit in this category. Most of our fixtures are totally enclosed so I haven’t switched those to LEDs, mostly because I haven’t done the homework to figure out which ones are suitable.

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned a major problem with CFLs: they contain mercury so they shouldn’t be disposed of in the garbage. It’s not a big deal, since places like Lowe’s, Home Depot, and Best Buy recycle them.

    #1827877

    Meno
    Participant

    60w bulbs are much more common. Ok, 100w bulbs do cost a bit more, but not much, and if you buy them in bulk on sale you can often get them for less than $2.

    Also I just looked up CFL bulbs at Home Depot. They’re on average a few cents cheaper per bulb. And they’re ugly.

    And again, most LED bulbs do last quite a while.

    I really think you just like complaining.

    #1828131

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Ecosmart, is made in the US and assembled here. Leds assembled in China often have chips from the US and other countries since they are not manufactured in China. Feit bulbs are not nor have they ever been manufactured in the US, but Feit is a frum owned company.

    FWIW I changed all my lights to LEDs 10 years ago (when they were still a bit spendy) and have yet to have one burn out.

    #1828374

    jdf007
    Participant

    You have to be technical with LEDs. Lumens is how much light is emitted, like candlewatts. Then there is color rendition. Some are warmer than others. I find that no two types of LEDS ever give the same types of outputs.
    I’ve yet to change any. But this electrical discussion is interesting. I can understand how a surge can killed the electronics, but then, I’d assume that the life of an incandescent is also being shortened. Maybe everything else should be on surge protectors too.

    #1828946

    Mammele
    Participant

    I’ve been told by an electrician when thinking of switching an area our house from fluorescent to strip LEDs, that although the LEDs may technically last longer, the brightness diminishes over time. If true, we’re probably all frog-like and don’t notice it. So we’re likely being gamed.

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