Lessons From The Amish Measles epidemic of 2014

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  • #1623052

    Haimy
    Participant

    In 2014 a measles epidemic affected the large Amish communities in Ohio.
    383 individuals caught the measels out of a population of 32000, 50% of whom weren’t vaccinated.
    There are no reports of death or serious injury among those affected.

    The following was reported in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine:

    “.6 Despite considerable societal interaction among Amish and non-Amish persons in Ohio, the spread of the disease was limited almost exclusively to the Amish, which indicates that high baseline vaccination coverage in the general community was probably effective against further spread of measles.”

    The takeaway:

    The risks of vaccinated poulations being affected by the anti vaxxers is extremely unlikely. The Amish were 50% unvaccinated yet they did not spread the disease to the general population.

    Source: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1602295

    I personally vaccinate my children once they reach school age.

    #1623364

    Joseph
    Participant

    Did the Amish children who got measles spread it to any Amish children who were vaccinated?

    #1623383

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The Amish avoid contact with the general population.

    #1623409

    Health
    Participant

    Haimy -“indicates that high baseline vaccination coverage in the general community was probably effective against further spread of measles.”

    That’s because those Goyim vaccinate, not like the Anti-vaxxers in our communities!
    This is called herd immunity.

    #1623405

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Haimy
    Youre takeaway is wrong. (did you read the study?)

    From the conclusion “As a result of targeted containment efforts, and high baseline coverage in the general community, there was limited spread beyond the Amish community.”

    This is what is being supported : “targeted containment efforts.”:
    If you aren’t vaccinated, stay home! period Dont’ come to shul, school, bris, pidyan haben, sehva berachos or a pidyon peter chamor.

    #1623564

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Haimy, so does that mean you leave your not-yet school-age children unvaccinated, running the risk of bringing the disease into your house? I hope there is no one in your home who is at risk due to low-immunity, a newborn, etc. Why not just vaccinate them in accordance with the recommended time for the vaccinations or at least at somewhat of a delay if you are concerned about the young age they are started? I know that in the gan where my daughter works, all the 3yo girls were being brought in to the local clinic to receive their second dose of the MMR vaccine in this latest outbreak. That means that these girls had already received their first dose about two years ago and now they are receiving their second, which means they are basically protected for life. Waiting until school age leaves your child at risk during those years.

    #1706434

    Joseph
    Participant

    From the Associated Press today:

    “For most people, measles is miserable but not life-threatening. The most common symptoms include fever, runny nose, cough, and a rash all over the body. However, a very small fraction of people get much sicker, and can suffer complications like pneumonia and swelling of the brain. Also, measles can cause pregnant women to deliver prematurely.

    There have been three measles-related deaths reported in the U.S. since 2000, including two in 2003 and one in 2015.”

    If it is only “miserable but not life-threatening”, how is it much different than chicken pox we all got as kids? Worst comes to worst, those that catch measles will be miserable until they get better.

    Three deaths in 20 years among a population of over 300,000,000 Americans is less severe than the common cold. Even complications short of death appears to be rarer than many other common illnesses. Measles doesn’t seem to be this monster some of the more extreme forced-vaccination supporting crowd portrays it. Even if one does contract it.

    P.S. I vaccinate everyone using the full CDC recommended schedule.

    #1706461

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Three deaths in 20 years among a population of over 300,000,000

    Because the vast majority of them vaccinate.

    What would the numbers be if they wouldn’t?

    #1706466

    adocs
    Participant

    Joseph,

    You make a good point.

    But are the anti-vaxxers just looking to stop the measles vaccine? Or do they support the cessation of all vaccines?

    #1706513

    Joseph
    Participant

    “Because the vast majority of them vaccinate.”

    Yet with the minority that consistently doesn’t vaccinate it is so low. Apparently then we can tolerate the current minority who chooses not to vaccinate.

    #1709019

    2scents
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

    To give you insight on how harmful and disastrous the measles virus was back in the day.

    There have been a number of hospitalizations with a few ICU admissions from the measles virus and its sequelae. While these children will IYh survive, in no way does this discount the severity of the virus.

    #1709134

    Joseph
    Participant

    There’s also been hospitalizations and ICU for those with the common cold. They are rare even among those who contract the virus.

    #1709267

    2scents
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Not sure your point.

    The hospitalizations are estimated to be about 20%, Some are transported by ambulance and some are admitted, This does not happen with the common cold.

    Your statement is incorrect.

    #1709669

    Joseph
    Participant

    My point was that it appears that the vast majority of measles cases results in no severe complications.

    #1709691

    2scents
    Participant

    Which is incorrect, the majority yes, vast majority not.

    #1709699

    Joseph
    Participant

    What’s your data point/source that a significant or notable percent of measles carriers have severe complications?

    #1709765

    2scents
    Participant

    I can easily provide you general observations and studies that are available.

    But for the current outbreak, there are no official numbers and I dont think that anyone will provide you with a list of last names of patients that have been transported or admitted.

    Getting admitted for the common cold, is rare.

    #1709785

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @joseph You’re reading the statistics wrong. I’m not sure if you’re doing this in-character, or you’re honestly unclear about the situation. Irregardless, there are probably people who believe as you do with misleading statistics.

    For a person that has measles, they are far more likely to end up in the hospital than a person with the cold or flu. And the less people that vaccinate, the more likely someone from a family that does vaccinate will get the disease. That’s why anti-vaxxers and their apologists (“I personally vaccinate, but I understand bla bla bla…”) are a danger to us all.

    #1709828

    Joseph
    Participant

    Getting admitted for the common cold, is rare.

    And all indications from the CDC are that getting admitted for measles is also rare.

    But for the current outbreak, there are no official numbers and I dont think that anyone will provide you with a list of last names of patients that have been transported or admitted.

    I’m not asking for statistics from the current outbreak. I’m asking for statistics from previous outbreaks or incidents.

    I can easily provide you general observations and studies that are available.

    Not general observations (those can be debated endlessly) but rather studies, as you are offering, from previous cases demonstrating — specifically — the likelihood of measles resulting or not resulting in severe complications.

    TIA

    #1709857

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @joseph Your trolling schtick to get people angry may have been funny once, but now you’re just being dangerous. Telling people that measles “aren’t so bad” is validating the horrendous activities of the so-called anti-vaxxer crowd. Please think about what your doing.

    #1709867

    2scents
    Participant

    J,

    Journal of the Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society, Volume 6, Issue 1, 1 March 2017, Pages 40–48,

    The Hospitalization average for patients with the measles virus, between 17/23%.

    #1709882

    mentsch1
    Participant

    A simple google search shows that in 2017 80,000 died in the us from the flu.
    For the 8 years from 2010-2018 the total from influenza stands at 336,000 (CDC website)
    Contrast that with 1 death from measles from 2005-2015.

    Before you get excited,I am pro vax. But I am definitely anti-hysteria.
    I think a refocus needs to happen and that is to spend a little more time discussing and preventing a disease that is 336,000 x more likely to kill and a little less time rehashing this subject.

    #1709873

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Measles doesn’t have to be the worst disease in the world in order to make it worthwhile to vaccinate.

    #1709861

    2scents
    Participant

    J,

    Observations cannot be debated, they are facts you should not be debating facts.

    You asked for data:

    CDC/Measle/complications

    Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

    As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
    About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
    For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
    Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

    Long-term Complications

    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in the United States.

    Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991, 4 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE. The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are two years of age.

    CDC/History of Measles

    In 1912, measles became a nationally notifiable disease in the United States, requiring U.S. healthcare providers and laboratories to report all diagnosed cases. In the first decade of reporting, an average of 6,000 measles-related deaths were reported each year.

    #1709895

    Joseph
    Participant

    Thank You, mentsch1. I’m trying to make the same point you are.

    RY23, agreed. And I would suggest anyone vaccinate. But even conceding your point doesn’t make it so terrible if someone else chooses not to vaccinate, even if that results in some people getting measles. We all used to get chicken pox as kids before they came around with the vaccine.

    At least that’s what it seems to me. I’m ready to stand corrected.

    #1709902

    Joseph
    Participant

    2scents: The data you cited does seem to mean that everyone should be vaccinated. That being said, it is difficult to reconcile all that with the data cited by mentsch1, which does leave room to accept those in the minority who choose not to vaccinate.

    P.S. This comment is submitted later than my other comment, though the mods might approve them in reverse order.

    #1709923

    2scents
    Participant

    Not sure why comparison would make it better or worse. If its bad, its bad.

    Also, measles hurts the younger population where the flu hurts more of the older population.

    Also to take into account, its not possible for just one vaccine to prevent one from getting the flu for the rest of their life, yet measles has a fairly good preventable vaccine available.

    #1709991

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @joseph and @mentsch1

    You are both misreading the data. Hundreds of thousands die from the flu because millions contracted it. Only a few hundred contracted the measles in comparison. This isn’t “hysteria”. Peoples lives are in danger because people like you think its OK if some people choose to allow their children to acquire dangerous diseases. Look at what happened in Eretz Yisroel last week, R”L. Nearly 30 newborns were in potential danger of death because a mother with measles gave birth in the maternity ward!

    If you are honest with yourselves, you would look at the data comparing hospitilization and injury rates for people already diagnosed with measles or flu. (Hint: the data shows that measles is far far worse)

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