Liberal conspiracy

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  • #1613239

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I like mocking Obama and Trump, but I do miss the Bush days when it was standard to compare the president to a monkey with the same first name as him.

    #1613675

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah,

    “To those idiots like Limbaugh, Savage etc,, I’d just wish one of these “toys” shows up in their mailbox so we can wish whats left of them a refuah shelamah.”

    And this rhetoric is just as terrible as what you’re so bothered by from the other “side”.

    #1613682

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Neville ChaimBerlin,

    “Conspiracies against Jews leading to Antisemitism are out there, but they aren’t being spread by Trump”

    Yes they are. Every time he rails against the globalist conspiracy to ruin America, the white supremacists wink and say hamevin yavin (well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean).

    #1613711

    Health
    Participant

    AVRAM -“Every time he rails against the globalist conspiracy to ruin America, the white supremacists wink and say hamevin yavin (well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean.”

    Stop with your lies about Trump!
    Where were you when Obama was president?!?
    We don’t even know whether Obama is an Antisemite or not, because it was hidden. From previous: “Hidden photo of Obama and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan surfaces after 13 years.”

    #1613748

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Health,

    Not to mention BLM

    #1613758

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Avram, that isn’t an example of Trump spreading theories against Jews. If you interpret every time someone criticizes globalism as “the Jews control the world,” then you have apparently been programmed to be subconsciously anti-semitic. If people interpret what he says as this mythical “wink” you liberals love to bring up, that isn’t his problem. He can’t refrain from talking about the real issues like globalism and immigration just because a small fraction of rightists will take the rhetoric too far. I don’t believe leftists like Bernie Sanders should be held back from talking about issues out of fear for extremists either.

    What I have to assume you want to go back to is bland, Bush/Clinton status quo America where none of the politicians talk about the issues people care about. I imagine you are the type to complain about “everything being polarized,” and how “everyone used to be more moderate.” Am I correct?

    2016 should have been a wake up call. The people were never laid back about issues like immigration, they just didn’t have a candidate to support their actual views on it before. Having real, Conservative representation is not a bad thing.

    #1613760

    jackk
    Participant

    Health,
    Here is an example.
    I quote from a tweet from DJT. These are his own words. “The very rude elevator screamers are paid professionals only looking to make Senators look bad. Don’t fall for it! Also, look at all of the professionally made identical signs. Paid for by Soros and others. These are not signs made in the basement from love! #Troublemakers.”

    DJT accuses Soros of being behind the Anti-Kavannaugh campaign.

    Why did he need to mention Soros ? The point of the tweet would mean the same whether he mentioned Soros or not.

    After he tweeted this, the neo-Nazi website the Daily Stormer wrote this and included a screenshot of DJT’s tweet: (Do not look at that website unless you want to get chizuk to move to Eretz Yisrael today or pray for Moshiach to come soon)

    “It is impossible to deny that subversive anti-American Jews were the primary force involved in a sinister plot to destroy Kavanaugh,” Lee Rogers wrote on the site a couple of days later. “These Jews do not represent the interest of America. They represent the interest of their diabolical and evil race first and foremost.”

    Avram is correct that Trump has spread (probably unwittingly ) the antisemitic conspiracy theories of the Nazis.
    Soros’s name has also been used to vilify the caravan walking to our southern border as a Jewish conspiracy to overrun America.

    If you want to know about Obama , talk to the thousands of Jews who interacted with him daily for 8 years. Don’t develop a theory based on a picture.

    #1614062

    Being next to someone in a photograph is very often meaningless.

    #1614187

    Health
    Participant

    jackk -“DJT accuses Soros of being behind the Anti-Kavannaugh campaign.
    Why did he need to mention Soros ? The point of the tweet would mean the same whether he mentioned Soros or not.”

    Maybe because he was behind it?

    “Soros’s name has also been used to vilify the caravan walking to our southern border as a Jewish conspiracy to overrun America.”

    It isn’t DJT’s idea! Maybe you should stop reading the Stormer?!?

    “If you want to know about Obama , talk to the thousands of Jews who interacted with him daily for 8 years. Don’t develop a theory based on a picture.”

    Name ONE!!!!!!

    #1614188

    Health
    Participant

    Random3x -“Being next to someone in a photograph is very often meaningless.”

    A picture is worth a thousand words!
    Btw, Why was Obama smiling?
    And why did the CBC tell the guy who took it – to hide it?!?

    #1614422

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Health,

    “Stop with your lies about Trump!”

    I have not lied. Sorry. כל הפוסל במומו פוסל‎

    “Where were you when Obama was president?!?”

    What does this have to do with President Trump?

    “We don’t even know whether Obama is an Antisemite or not, because it was hidden.”

    Given his lame duck slap of Israel via the UN and his administration’s general tone-deafness, I’d say it was quite possible. President Obama’s rhetoric reflected the anti-Semitism on the left (anti-Israel, anti-milah, anti-shechita, etc.), while President Trump’s rhetoric stirs up the anti-Semitism on the right (Jews control the world and seek to undermine nations, are polluters of purity, etc.). I’m happy to call out both, but the latter is more threatening and imminently dangerous right now.

    #1614438

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Neville ChaimBerlin,

    “If you interpret every time someone criticizes globalism as “the Jews control the world,” then you have apparently been programmed to be subconsciously anti-semitic.”

    It doesn’t matter how I interpret it. It matters how the white supremacists interpret it. I think the whole “globalist vs. capitalist” dichotomy is a false one anyway.

    “If people interpret what he says as this mythical “wink” you liberals”

    “You liberals”, wow. Calm down the keyboard warfare there, realize that I am a human being and that I’m not your enemy, and talk to me like a human being. Thank you.

    “love to bring up, that isn’t his problem. He can’t refrain from talking about the real issues like globalism and immigration just because a small fraction of rightists will take the rhetoric too far.”

    Actually, that is his problem. And it would be quite a simple thing to clarify, “oh, when I say globalists, I do not mean Jews, and I wholeheartedly condemn and reject anyone who twists my words in order to peddle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.” Yet has he said anything of the sort?

    #1614456

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avram, suspecting President Trump of the type of wink wink anti-Semitism you describe by implication without explicitness is absurd given Trump’s proven track record both long before he ran for office as well as since he’s been in office of being an overt Oheiv Yisroel who has a consistent record of taking action, not just words, in support of Jewish causes.

    This is not to even mention his supportivness of his daughter’s Jewish conversion and supportivness of his Jewish son in law in business and in office. Or his father’s track record supporting Jewish causes.

    #1614484

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    “Avram, suspecting President Trump of the type of wink wink anti-Semitism you describe by implication without explicitness is absurd given Trump’s proven track record … of being an overt Oheiv Yisroel”

    Lol, this is the classic “I’m not racist, some of my best friends are black!” retort. It’s not absurd at all. I do not think that Donald Trump subscribes to the racial animus towards Jews espoused by Nazi ideology – in other words, I think he sees Jews as “white”. However, I do think he subscribes to the Jews secretly control the world/desire wealth above all else tropes. But at the end of the day he is a believer in the-ends-justify-the-means. Therefore, he is willing to work with this supposed Jewish cabal to get his financial, political, and attention-getting desires met where applicable, and he is equally willing to rail against the cabal to his base in order to get their votes, while keeping it subtle enough to not completely upset the former collaborations.

    #1614502

    laskern
    Participant

    Joseph, by the president not speaking up against white nationalist he is enabling them by giving them strength and a platform so they should falsely be thinking that he is advocating their beliefs.

    #1614507

    Joseph
    Participant

    The issue is the president is falsely accused of supporting them. He needn’t denounce every group his political opponents and media haters demand he denounce based on their false insinuations of his support.

    #1614535

    Health
    Participant

    AVRAM – “I have not lied. Sorry.
    President Trump’s rhetoric stirs up the anti-Semitism on the right (Jews control the world and seek to undermine nations, are polluters of purity, etc.). I’m happy to call out both, but the latter is more threatening and imminently dangerous right now.”

    The prob with you libs is that you live in your little world. Pres. Trump is NOT PC & feels no need to defend his comments! Therefore if right wackos decide to turn his words around – he doesn’t respond!
    Trump remembers a world that wasn’t guided by PC. He lives in that world. Unfortunely you only live in your PC World, NOT the Real World!
    He’s the most Pro-Jewish Pres that we have had in a long Time.
    Start being Makir Tov!

    #1614558

    jackk
    Participant

    Health,

    If you can’t remember any, can’t you do a little research?
    Call any one of these people, I dare you, and then come back and confirm that you were wrong.

    Rahm Emanuel Chief of Staff to the President
    Ben Bernanke Chairman, Federal Reserve
    David Axelrod Senior Advisor to the President
    Elena Kagan Solicitor General of the United States
    Jack Lew Secretary of the Treasury
    Eric Lynn Middle East Policy Adviser
    Daniel Rubenstein Ambassador to Syria
    Dan Shapiro Ambassador to Israel

    Obama never was and is not an antisemite. It was not hidden. It does not exist. Just like Trump isn’t.
    Your accusation of him is false.

    I disagree with Avram on this . A lame duck act committed after 8 years in office regarding the state of Israel in the UN, as payback to Netanyahu who had shamed and embarrassed him publicly – in the US Congress also – for many of those years is not a sign of antisemitism. Just remember what Netanyahu did – all you people who think now that it is a chilul Hashem of the highest proportions and a lack of gratitude to criticize the current president.

    Who do you think Israel has to thank for the Iron Dome ?

    Israel , under Obama, received more than $20.5 billion in foreign military financing. Unlike President George W. Bush, who rejected Israel’s request for bunker-buster bombs, Obama became the first president to approve the sale of these advanced weapons,

    Under Obama’s 8 years , the U.S voted against resolutions in the General Assembly condemning Israel, cast the only “no” votes on five anti-Israel measures in the Human Rights Council, and worked to ensure that the General Assembly hold its first-ever session on anti-Semitism. Obama also prevented the Palestinians from unilaterally declaring an independent state.

    #1614562

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, being so pro-jewish, why does he not called out the white nationalist thereby contributing to all the murder?

    #1614563

    jackk
    Participant

    Health-
    Liberals live in the real world. The first and largest attack against Jews was committed a week ago.
    It could have been any one of us commenting here.
    All any good American cares about is that it should not happen again.
    Whatever caused it needs to be prevented and not giving excuses or “thoughts and prayers.”

    #1614743

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    The first and largest attack against Jews was committed a week ago.

    First?

    There’s a list of attacks directed at Jews that Ywn posted, I suggest you read it

    #1614893

    Health
    Participant

    laskern – “Health, being so pro-jewish, why does he not called out the white nationalist thereby contributing to all the murder?”

    And why didn’t Obama call all those Terror attacks – Islamic Terrorists?!?

    #1614891

    Health
    Participant

    jackk -“Call any one of these people, I dare you, and then come back and confirm that you were wrong.”

    What’s your point ? That a lot of Jews believe in Liberalism?
    That they put their personal beliefs over the rights of all Jews & Hashem’s Torah?

    “Obama never was and is not an antisemite.”

    Why was Obama smiling in that picture? It looks like he’s a good friend of Farrahkan (probably the most well known Antisemite here in the US).

    “It was not hidden.”

    The picture was hidden for many years!
    And why did the CBC tell the guy who took it – to hide it?!?

    #1614916

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, Obama is a diplomat who does not want to create more terrorism,
    besides two wrongs don’t make a right.

    #1614917

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, also not all islamic are terrorists and there are other terrorists.

    #1615061

    Health
    Participant

    laskern -“Health, Obama is a diplomat who does not want to create more terrorism,
    besides two wrongs don’t make a right.”

    How would it create more terrorism – if he called out Islamic terror, esp. here in the US?

    “Health, also not all islamic are terrorists and there are other terrorists”

    During his time as pres, I think the only terror here was Islamic Terrorism.

    #1615068

    jackk
    Participant

    Health,

    Thank you for confirming to me that you are stuck in your ignorant belief that Obama is an antisemite and nothing will ever change you. You should stop mentioning your belief on TYW until you are at least open-minded enough to debate it and change. It makes sense since I think you still believe that Obama was not born in Hawaii, USA.

    Coffee Addict – you are correct. But for some reason, I did not feel personal fear due to those attacks. Whereas now I say a prayer before going into a shul, yeshiva, school, kosher restaurant …

    #1615095

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Health,

    “Pres. Trump is NOT PC & feels no need to defend his comments! Therefore if right wackos decide to turn his words around – he doesn’t respond!”

    And that is wrong. Words matter. Communication matters.

    “Trump remembers a world that wasn’t guided by PC. He lives in that world. Unfortunely you only live in your PC World, NOT the Real World!”

    If it were the 1950s, Donald Trump would have had his mouth washed out with soap by now. This “not PC” nonsense is just an excuse to be false, uncivil, and nasty.

    #1615101

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    “The issue is the president is falsely accused of supporting them. He needn’t denounce every group his political opponents and media haters demand he denounce based on their false insinuations of his support.”

    This post is quite surprising coming from you. I never knew you were an Obama supporter.

    #1615236

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, if you accuse someone falsely of terrorism, they might as well be terrorist. If you accuse muslems falsely of terrorism, they don’t lose anything by being terrorists.

    #1615425

    Health
    Participant

    laskern -“If you accuse muslems falsely of terrorism”

    Who accused them FALSELY?
    I said everytime there was a terror attack, Obama couldn’t say ISLAMIC TERRORISM!!!

    #1615424

    Health
    Participant

    Avram -“And that is wrong. Words matter. Communication matters.”

    Mr. Lib, did you comment about the pic of Obama with Farakan?
    Or it only matters when you can attack Cons for voicing their opinion?!?

    #1615418

    Health
    Participant

    jackk -“Thank you for confirming to me that you are stuck in your ignorant belief that Obama is an antisemite and nothing will ever change you.”

    I said IDK if he is one or not! I asked a question about a picture, which you didn’t answer.

    “You should stop mentioning your belief on TYW until you are at least open-minded enough to debate it and change”

    When you stop saying our Great Pres. is an antisemite!
    “Avram is correct that Trump has spread (probably unwittingly ) the antisemitic conspiracy theories of the Nazis.”

    #1615432

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Politicians in general are arrogant, lying gamblers.

    #1615461

    1
    Participant

    Obama is the academic type of anti-Semite.

    #1615463

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, Obama did not want to accuse all islamic people who did not commit terrorism, as I mentioned above, that creates more terrorism.

    #1615458

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    If you think the president needs to end every sentence with “by the way, this doesn’t mean I support white supremacists,” then your opinions are a joke and nobody should be wasting time talking with you. The truth is, YOU LIBERALS (who are my enemy and the enemies of the country) will never be satisfied with anything the presidents says. We finally got someone who talks about what conservatives actually want to hear and it terrifies you. And, where is this even coming from that he’s “never denounced the white nationalists?” He absolutely has; are you guys just trying to get in on the booming fake news business?

    On a side note, I do not believe Obama was an Anti Semite. I don’t believe in accusing everyone with different opinions of bigotry. That’s a the leftist strategy.

    #1615484

    laskern
    Participant

    Your appeasing Trump like Neville Chamberlin did the Nazis.

    #1615563

    Health
    Participant

    laskern -“Health, Obama did not want to accuse all islamic people who did not commit terrorism, as I mentioned above, that creates more terrorism”

    I never said he should! Why don’t read my post ? – Here it is again:
    “How would it create more terrorism – if he called out Islamic terror, esp. here in the US?
    During his time as pres, I think the only terror here was Islamic Terrorism.”

    #1615613

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “don’t believe in accusing everyone with different opinions of bigotry. That’s a the leftist strategy.”

    Ah but you do believe in accusing everyone with a different opinion of being ” my enemy and the enemies of the country,” I’m not sure how that is much better.

    “And, where is this even coming from that he’s “never denounced the white nationalists?” He absolutely has;”

    Can you provide an example please? He came close after Charlotsville but went on to condemn “both sides, both sides” and revealed this gem ““You also had some very fine people on both sides,”

    #1615704

    laskern
    Participant

    Health, you are emphasizing muslem giving the inpression that they are all responsible. How would you like it if things were reversed and they would call it Jewish Terrorism?

    #1615828

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Just as a point of information. Our president has refused to renew a domestic terrorism grant program established by President Obama. He has already canceled a grant that fights white supremacist terrorism. This program initiated by President Obama in 2016 has distributed $10M in grants. No reason for these actions but one recipient with measurable success was underfunded and dropped from the program. Again no reasons given by the administration.

    #1615849

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Laskern, Muslim terrorism is a different type of terrorism. Radical Islamic groups have created a whole category. If there were chas v’shalom an equivalent Jewish group, “Jewish terrorism” would be the right term.

    #1615852

    Health
    Participant

    lasker -“Health, you are emphasizing muslem giving the inpression that they are all responsible. How would you like it if things were reversed and they would call it Jewish Terrorism?”

    Stop with your self-hatred! I never ever heard in the US s/o commiting terrorism in the name of our Jewish religion! But in that religion – it happens many times.

    #1616086

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Health
    We have been over this.

    I asked you before, you didnt answer. Here it is again:

    I have had rebbeim (plural) who said that it was a “mitzva” to rateve (rescue) yiddish gelt from the government who steals and wastes money, by taking whatever we can even by any means necessary.

    Unfortunately followers of this view are sometimes caught.

    Do you support the government/media labeling such theft as “Jewish thievery” ?

    #1616174

    Health
    Participant

    ubiq -“I have had rebbeim (plural) who said that it was a “mitzva” to rateve (rescue) yiddish gelt from the government who steals and wastes money, by taking whatever we can even by any means necessary.”

    I don’t believe you! There might be someone who holds similiarly, but NOT they way you understand it.
    You have turned it around to fit your agenda! Do you really HATE all Religious Jews?

    “Unfortunately followers of this view are sometimes caught.
    Do you support the government/media labeling such theft as “Jewish thievery” ?”

    It’s an absurd question, because of what I just wrote. But just to humor you – Yes, I would.

    #1616197

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “It’s an absurd question, because of what I just wrote. But just to humor you – Yes, I would.”

    Thank you for answering, and now I understand where you are coming from (sort of, I still don’t get why it is so important to say “Islamic terrorism”).

    On the other hand I would be very upset by said expression, most of the people I know, and I’d venture to say most Jews would similarly be very upset by said expression.
    Even if you would be ok with the expression “Jewish thievery” in the hypothetical (for argument’s sake) scenario I outlined, can you see why many if not most would find it offensive, and would be upset by it?

    #1616226

    Health
    Participant

    ubiq -“can you see why many if not most would find it offensive, and would be upset by it?”

    Yes, I would, if it was said generally. But in the case of Islamic Terror, when s/o perpertrates Terror in the name of Religion, it must be called out, Not celebrated – like we have seen – candies & cake given out!

    #1616272

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Yes, I would, if it was said generally.”

    Bingo! I’m so glad you got it.
    now you do not have to agree (especially since you indicated that you would be ok with the expression “Jewish Thievery” in the scenario I outlined)

    now, just as people would be upset by the expression “Jewish Thievery,” Others are upset by the expression “Islamic Terrorism”

    As a general rule, if an expression you plan to use will upset people (as you indicated you understood) and benefit nobody IT is a good policy to avoid that expression.
    and even if it where to somehow benefit somebody that benefit needs to be weighed against upseting people.

    and on top of that the expression “Islamic terrorism” does worse than just upset people. It runs the risk of alienating vast swaths of people from bein potential allies.
    Take ISIS for example, the ones of have suffered the most at their hands are other Muslims. Turning the conflict into a “US vs Muslims” crusade (as GWB unwisely said”) Has the possibility of gaining nothing and only causing harm

    “Not celebrated – like we have seen – candies & cake given out!”
    Agreed
    did Obama give out candies and cake?

    #1616303

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Ubiq – im not gonna jump on this political blackhole but you are definitely not playing straight. You are taking advantage of his emotional approach and arguing style to discount all his points. Saying there is a shred of similarity between “jewish thievery” and not denouncing islamic terror hours after terrorists credit islamic ideology for the deed is crazy. Sure you can have fun spinning in circles with him on this but that wont make you right.

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