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Many have claimed life was better for Jews in Eretz Yisrael before the State of Israel was established. Let’s look at some of the facts:
In the 16th century, the Radbaz moved to Yerushalayim. He ended up leaving because the Jewish residents were forced to pay extremely high taxes, higher than the other residents. He moved to Tzfat. However, 1,500 of the most well-to-do Jewish families were ordered to leave Tzfat by the ruling Muslims. This order was later rescinded when they realized the amount of rent they’d be missing out on.
During Tach v’Tat, many Jews fled to Israel. The local Druze didn’t appreciate it, and they massacred the inhabitants of Tzfat and Tiveriah.
During the events of Shabtai Tzvi, there was a massacre of the Jews living in Yerushalayim.
In the 19th century, there were pogroms against the Jews in Chevron, Tzfat, and Yerushalayim, carried out by the Egyptians who were occupying the area.
In 1929, the Chevron Massacre was carried out by the Arabs living in the area.
This was all before Israel was founded. Jews were treated as second (or third) class citizens by their rulers. There was a very small Jewish population in Israel. There were few yeshivos.
Nowadays, there are millions of Jews living (mostly) peacefully. There is more Torah being learned there than there has been in thousands of years. There are hundreds of yeshivos.
Moadim l’simcha l’geulah shleimah!
We always had the choice: give up (or at least compromise)on frumkeit or face persecution. A Jew not wanting to be tolerate persecution need only to give up on Yiddishkeit. There is strong evidence that many did decide to give up on Torah and Mitsvos in order to reap the benefits of being part of mainstream society. For the most part if we “knew our place”, we were allowed to be as frum as we wanted. If the Israelis adopted the same policy as the goyim did, there wouldn’t be an issue. In return for accepting second class status, we were allowed self-government and complete autonomy in such matters as law, education, welfare, etc. Kashrut and Bris Milah were never an issue. Our status was not all that different than that of African Americans prior to the Civil Rights Acts in the last century – except that we always had a choice, and our ancestors made the decision to give up on parnassah and civil rights in order to be free to be frum.
Given the 1929 was in the zionist period, with evidence that the British and Zionists were involved (contemporary accounts indicate that both had prior knowledge of the pogrom, making one suspect the Brits were involved as agents provacateurs), that shouldn’t count. Shabatai Zevi also shouldn’t count since he was trying to seize Eretz Yisrael by force. I seriously doubt anyone fled Tach v’Tat (1648) by moving to Eretz Yisrael given the distances involved – people fled to the nearest territory controlled by the Poles or Hapsburgs, which were around the corner.
I write this as a member of the Chareidi community in EY. My grandfather, a Yerushalmi chareidi told me that when BG declared independence everyone was dancing in the street apart from a tiny group of NKs. Almost all the chareidim at that time understood what this meant and there was little doubt that Hashem had given them a tremendous gift. The Yated, the mouthpiece of the chareidi world had a headline which read – Shehecheyonu V’Kiyimonu etc. etc.
As time went on and it became clearer what the politicians were trying to achieve so the chareidim have turned more and more negative.
My Grandfather who survived the pogroms in ’29, and many of his generation (the few who are still around), prefer to still see this as a gift from Hashem, but a gift that humans have partially destroyed. If someone gives you a gift and then your kid rips it up do you not still thank the giver? And in this case it is not even completely ripped up, there are still many positive aspects that remain.
Whether or not one ‘celebrates’ the day, we are chayav to give thanks for every good thing that happens to us. So we have to thank Hashem that we can learn in a country that has more Yeshivos than anywhere else in relative safety, that we can live in a country where we can keep mitzvois hateluyois bo’oretz in relative safety, that we can live in a country where we can visit mekomos hakedoshim in relative safety. We have to thank Hashem for these things even if reshoim have taken it and tried to use it against us.
But in reality we need to thank Hashem every day for them. It is sometimes difficult to feel motivated/inspired every day though and therefore I use these days to help me in my inspiration. So even though I do not celebrate, I and several others that I know have a greater kavono in the brochos of v’liyrusholayim, es tzemach and moidim.
I can only encourage others to use every opportunity available to connect to HKBH
(Please note, this was directed at chareidim like me. If you are NK or Satmar who think it is a maaseh soton, you will obviously disagree, so please don’t bother to reply, my comment was never meant for you)
Fair points.
(But to be obtuse anyway, I’ll wonder whether the unfairly high taxes were still lower than todays taxes in Israel.)
You should read the current piece by Berel Wein
DaMoshe- Thank you for not saying something like, There is no greater financial supporter of yeshivos, than the israeli government That would be controversial.
And how come Jews still managed to be an elite in Eretz Yisrael, Babilonia, Persia, etc…? Most sephardic jews were wealthy or middle-class at worst, in the diaspora,….and they ended up being low-paid blue-collar workers in Ashdod, Ashkelon, Be’er Sheva, etc…
DaMoshe- True, there were acts done against Jews in Israel throughout history. However, I don’t think there were ever so many in so few years as since the war of independence.
Akuperma, you forgot to mention the Crusader massacres, blood libels, pogrced exiles, burning of Gemoras etc. As for Sfardim, don’t forget the Spanish pogroms before the expulsion of 1492. Please don’t distort history. We were persecuted and had no rights
DaMoshe:
Actually, the accurate claim, which Zionists cannot refute, is that “life was better for Jews in Eretz Yisrael before Zionism”, not “before 1948” as you wrote, because by that time the Zionists had already engaged in decades of conflict with the Arabs in E”Y.
Regarding the Chevron massacre, as has been posted on these boards numerous times, that was also “thanks” to Zionism, specifically “Religious Zionism”.
Rabbi Baruch Kaplan who was there, said publicly (and others concurred) that the Arabs revolted due to the “Religious Zionists” provoking the Arabs by insisting on having control over the Kosel. “Shema Yisrael HaKosel Kosleinu HaKosel Echad” was their abominable rallying cry, twisting our holy Shema into a nationalist propaganda slogan that cost innocent Jewish lives.
Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld, on the other hand, begged the “Religious Zionists” to stop antagonizing the Arabs and to be grateful that the Arabs did not interfere with Jews davening there. But the Zionists wanted to serve their idol (as per Rav Elchonon).
mmys:
Of course the Zionists managed to fool lots of people at the time. They still manage to fool people even with the benefit of hindsight of history and the recorded clear opinions of the gedolim on this subject.
The Brisker Rav wrote that the State only came into being because of the Jews who davened for that State instead of davening for the geula, which Hashem would have given them at the time had they instead done so. So your post is not a chidush.
But whatever your grandfather’s opinion is, or that of others who were there, one can presume that both the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish were greater than he and the others.
Both the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish agreed that the state’s establishment was a gizeirah raah. The Brisker Rav pointed out to the Chazon Ish that a gizeirah (raah) avida liHibatla only applies when people understand that it’s a gezeira raah so he feared that this gizeirah would remain ad beas goel, Hashem yiracheim.
On a subsequent Israeli Independence Day, the Chazon Ish was honored with Sandak for three brisos. Despite this, he insisted on saying Tachanun that morning anyways so that nobody would make any mistake about this matter.
But the “Religious Zionists” continue to delude themselves and attempt to delude others who don’t know any better.
Hakatan-
The Chevron massacre had nothing to do with Zionist provocation and everything to do with Eisav soneh es Yaakov.That’s why it was such a huge nes that the U.N, an organization full of useless anti-semitic sheratzim, voted to establish Israel as a state. Hashem had a good laugh with that one.
Mods: you asked me to keep things nice. We’ll, please keep HaKatan out of the threads I start about Israel. His hatred does more to prevent Mashiach from coming than everything I’ve ever done combined.
Being nice includes playing nice with people who disagree with you.
Hakatan didn’t attack you or anyone in any personal way. He simply disagreed with you. Deal with it.
The State of Israel does not represent the Jewish People. The previous regime never claimed to.
Hakatan- You surely know you are a daas yochid, on this website and in the modern and yeshivish world. While most yeshivish people are not pro zionist, they certainly aren’t mevatel zman by going online and defending anti-zionism over and over again). Haven’t you seen the Chazon Ish that no one knows how to give tochacha anymore? Have you ever followed THAT shitah of the Chazon Ish (or any of his others, like using wood walls for a sukkah), instead of just the one that suits your political bent?
DaMoshe:
Please let me know which navi informed you that I hate and that this alleged hate has prevented Mashiach from coming, CH”V.
On the contrary, I’ve pointed out how our gedolim hold (it’s actually a gemara in Sanhedrin) that having a “Jewish State” holds off Mashiach’s coming.
(On other threads, I have also quoted Rav Schwab’s letter begging “our achim biAidah”, the “Centrist Orthodoxy”/”Modern Orthodox” to return to the fold. His piece is entitles to the effect of Love, not Hate.
But Rav Schwab was unequivocal that this does not in any way permit their “…heresy”.)
rf:
Your post is, unfortunately, historically and otherwise, wrong on all counts.
HaKatan, you are quite correct that the Brisker Rov had a much more hardline approach. So hardline that he also said one must not vote in state elections. The vast majority of the chareidi israeli community that I am part of follow the Gedolim who have a less hardline approach and allow voting. The Chazon Ish although allowing voting, also was well known for his strong opinions on the medinah.
And you are quite correct that both of them were greater than my grandfather. However there are many Gedolei Torah (who lived in EY) over the last 80 years who have the approach I described.
They include:
Rav Isser Zalman Melzer zt’l
Rav Yosef Shlomo Kahaneman zt’l
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt’l
Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz zt’l
Rav Naftoli Horowitz (Bostoner) zt’l
Rav Ovadia Yosef zt’l
I am quite sure that none of the above would say that they are zionists in the way the term is used today and they would all consider themselves chareidi and yet each one, in their own way, used this day to thank Hashem for his precious gift.
I am told that throughout Rav S.Z. Auerbach’s life, Yeshivas Kol Torah did not say tachanun on YhA out of respect for him.
And I am sure no one had the chutzpah to go up to him (except maybe a Katan) and tell him he is deluded and he has been fooled by the zionists.
Similarly, despite the fact that he stood down with regards to electricity on Shabbos out of respect to the Ch’I, he never did with regards to this issue. He therefore held that it was acceptable for a Chareidi to hold a different view.
So HaKatan, while you are welcome to follow your own Gedolim, there are enough Gedolim within the chareidi world to support my approach.
Those Chareidim who would like to grab the opportunity to connect to HKBH and thank Him for the constant kindness he bestows on us are welcome to follow that approach.
Baruch Hashem here in Yerushalayim I was zoche to host a large Seudat Chag on Leil Yom Ha’Atzmaut filled with Shira and Divrei Torah.
Furthermore I had a even greater Zechut to go up as Shlliach Tzibur for both Ma’ariv and Shachrit with all the extra Tefilot, Tehillim and Hallel to thank Hashem for this great opportunity and for the salvation of the wars.
Leil Yom Ha’tzmaut included Perkei Tehillim before Ma’ariv and Hallel without a Bracha after Shemona Esorei.
Shachrit included Yom Tov Pesukei Dezimra, Hallel Shalem with a Bracha and Haftorah that Chutznikim read on Shmini Shel Pesach.
No, Hakatan. Your post is halachically wrong, because its a mefurash din that eisav soneh es yaakov. The goyim never needed real reasons for the crusades, the tach v’tat, inquisition in Spain, or Chevron Massacre. It is simply the teva of goyim that they hate yidden, and for you to deny this is to ignore divrei chazal- the same thing you accuse everyone of doing.
RF:
Your latest post is incorrect as well.
While it is a halach biYadua that Eisav Sonei es Yaakov, that means that one should be all the MORE careful to NOT “fan those flames”.
If you taunt a wild animal then you can’t claim that it bit because it’s a wild animal. It’s true that if it were a cow that it would not have bitten. But it’s also true that it wouldn’t have bitten if you hadn’t taunted it.
The facts are that the “Religious Zionists” came up with their disgraceful “Shema Yisrael HaKosel Kosleinu HaKosel Echad” and needlessly provoked the Arabs which did antagonize the Arabs, on top of the rest of the Zionist aggression, and this was the result as testified by those who lived there and knew exactly what was happening.
To be clear, the Arabs had no right to touch even a single hair on the head of a Jew. But that doesn’t change the sheer recklessness of starting up with them.
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