- This topic has 28 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Does anyone know of a website or book giving a detailed account of the lives of average Jews in Europe (not famous people or Rabbis), particularly Poland, in the early 1900s leading up to WW2?
All I really know about it is from what my grandpa told me but he was very young and am looking for a more objective, historical approach.
go to the website that belongs to NY channel 13…put Jewish life Europe in the search bar and it will bring up great resources/videos, teaching materials
Maybe the book “2000 years of Jewish history “
Do keep us posted if yiu find anything
You might want to read Simon Dubnow who was a historian who died in the Vilna Ghetto, There are other accounts as well. Be prepared it might not be what you expected
There is a video on youtube of Munkatch from 1933. It is very surprising, its just scenes from Munkatch. It opens with the wedding of the Munkatcher Rebbe and he is giving a dvar torah on the evils of America. Then there is a scene of people buying books. The 3rd scene is a bunch of children singing Hatikva with the original lyrics, its depressing since you know all these children will be killed in about 10 years and the final scene is a bunch of people dancing the Hora (Mixed Dancing).
Read Rabbi Berel Wein’s Jewish history books and audio tapes.
Families Rabbis and Education
by Shaul Stampfer
Blurb:
The family and the community, which were in a very real sense the core institutions of east European Jewish society, underwent very rapid change in the nineteenth century. These essays look at the past through the prism of the lives of ordinary people, with results that are sometimes surprising, but always stimulating. The topics they treat are varied, but the concern to explain what lay behind the visible reality is common to all of them.
zahavasdad:The Rebbe in the video is saying to his brider in America, ir zult hiten Shabbos vet eich git zein.
???? ????: ????? ????? ?????????
????? ???? ???? ??”?
??? ?????
I do issue this warning again, You might find out things that you didnt want to hear or wont belive are true.
Most people who write history are biased, and they will usually write their accounts from their own perspective and frum authors are not exempt.
One has to understand why jews were into =isms prior to WW II and zionism was not even near to the most popular (yet many frum authors seem to harp on this when Bundism which was secular socialism seems to be omitted and it was the most popular philosophy) , One also has to understand why in the Ashkenzic world the word of the local Rav was not obeyed . Why were jews attracted to the haskallah , Communism , Bundism and moving to the USA. These questions are very important to understanding pre-war Europe.
If this is for a child, there are plenty of nostalgic sources. If this is for serious research, stick to primary sources. Yiddish newspapers would be good (note: if you can’t read Yiddish you can’t do serious research in pre-war European Jewish history – ability to read German, Polish and some of the other Eastern European languages is also important). For frum sources, contemporary shailohos ve-tseuvahs might be good. Be concerned about nostalgia and take any secondary sources (including websites) with a grain of salt.
Don’t forget that virtually all of Russian Jewry trapped in the post WWI Soviet Union were lost religiously. Their is an interesting theory as to how the Communists were able to virtually wipe out religious observance in one generation while the Czars couldn’t accomplish it in two hundred years.
The Czars had tried persecution and oppression, which by itself never works. The communists, many of whom were Jewish and grew up in religious homes, knew better. They knew that if they cut off the figurative head, the body would die. They set to close shuls and yeshivas and kill/ exile all leaders end educators ( rabbanim, melameds, butcherd etc. With them gone, the community withered
Lesschumras, the Tsars never directly tried to wipe out all Yiddishkeit there. The Communists went ahead with a full shmad program. Yidden were killed or locked up in harsh labor camps or were under threat of these things happening to them.
In the 19th century they tried to force yeshivas to teach Russian and secular subjects the Communists simply shut the yeshivas
I suspect part of the reason the communists were successful was the general disarry between 1919 an beyond. People were exiled, displaced and killed and likely those who were killed were the more religious ones as the less religious ones moved east where it was safer rather than stayed in western Soviet Union (Ukraine, Belrus, etc). Alot of people also lost their faith after the war
Zahavasdad, sorry to tell you, but you are simply wrong. Read some Jewish history books or books written by mesiras nefesh Yidden who were there. It was simply a total shmad assault over a long period of time. Even those who themselves withstood it were not not able to keep their children frum in the very great majority of cases. Lost faith after the war? No. A very great majority were frei already by the beginning of the war. Those who were still frum were hard core tzaddikim who did not lose faith.
Newbee
Generally the jews in the cities of central and eastern Europe were not so relgious. By all means this doesnt belive all were not relgious, there were plenty of relgious people in the big cities. But they were generally the minirity and this includes cities like Warsaw and Vilna. About 1/3 of jews in the big cities were relgious the other 2/3 were not
Newbee, Poland was a very different matzav when compared with Germany. The Haskolah and going off the derech came there much later, but were in full swing after WWI. The Polish Jewry was much less assimilated than the German one though.
Thats shocking to me
Thats why I am not so sure you want to investigate further
Google Bundism. It was the most popular philosophy of Pre-war eastern Europe. Its been almost totally forgotten. It was basically Secular yiddishism with a socialist bent. They were anti-zionist, Pro-Yiddish , Pro Labor and wanted to stay in Poland but with equal rights for all.
Ive been to Prague and Budapest and the largest synagouges there are not orthodox. The largest and most beautiful synangouge in Prague is not the Altaneushul (Maharal Shul) but rather the Reform Spanish Synanoguge
And in Budapest the largest shul in Europe (not just Hungary) is the Dohany Street Synangouge, which Im not totally sure what it is because women sit on a differnt floor than men, but there is an organ used on Shabbos (Played by a non-jew).
In Vilna Rav Chaim Ozer was never able to become chief Rabbi of the city because the secular elements were able to block him, they were so powerful (The Chief Rabbi in Europe is a government position and carries the weight of the law behind you in enforcement)
I guess “The World That Was: Poland” wouldn’t be of much use to you.
ZD: you are wrong about Poland. This from Wiki: History of the Jews in Poland
The newly independent Second Polish Republic had a large and vibrant Jewish minority. By the time World War II began, Poland had the largest concentration of Jews in Europe although many Polish Jews had a separate culture and ethnic identity from Catholic Poles. Some authors have stated that only about 10% of Polish Jews during the interwar period could be considered “assimilated” while more than 80% could be readily recognized as Jews.[75]
“According to the 1931 National Census there were 3,130,581 Polish Jews measured by the declaration of their religion. Estimating the population increase and the emigration from Poland between 1931 and 1939, there were probably 3,474,000 Jews in Poland as of September 1, 1939 (approximately 10% of the total population) primarily centered in large and smaller cities: 77% lived in cities and 23% in the villages. They made up about 50%, and in some cases even 70% of the population of smaller towns, especially in Eastern Poland.[76] [77] [78] [79] In 1939 there were 375,000 Jews in Warsaw or one third of the city’s population. Only New York City had more Jewish residents than Warsaw.”
So if 77% of Jews lived in cities, and 80% of Jews throughout all of Poland were recongnizably Jewish, how exactly were 2/3 of the Jews in the cities not religious as you contend?
And the Dohany Synagogue is Neolog, which was a “milder” version of Reform/Conservative — very big in
Budapest. However, while unfortunately true in Budapest, the biggest or nicest Synagogue does not always equal the largest denomination, just more financial clout.
Some authors have stated that only about 10% of Polish Jews during the interwar period could be considered “assimilated” while more than 80% could be readily recognized as Jewish
Being non-religious is not the same as assimilationist. the Bund were non-relgious and probably anti-relgious, but they were not assimaltionist.
The non-relgious jews in poland Spoke Yiddish, married among themselves , but also engaged in Jewish culture like jewish literature, Jewish theater, jewish Orchestras and other jewish cultural things.
An Assimated jew would be someone likely married to a non-jew and not engaging in anything jewish except maybe a last name (if even that)
Mamale
“So if 77% of Jews lived in cities, and 80% of Jews throughout all of Poland were recongnizably Jewish, how exactly were 2/3 of the Jews in the cities not religious as you contend?”
I’ll take this one.
I’m not sure why you equate “recognizably Jewish” with “religious” there are many today who are recongniizably Jewish today based on accent/self identification/Name etc (many celebreties come to minnd” yet unfortunalty arent religous. This was more true then when yiddish was widely spoken making identification of the irreligous bundists as Jewish quite easy.
From Wikipedia..About the Bund electoral results. These numbers do not include non-relgious zionism or other non-relgious groups
In December 1938 and January 1939, at the last Polish municipal elections before the start of the Second World War, the Bund received the largest segment of the Jewish vote. In 89 towns, one-third elected Bund majorities.[15] [16] [10]
After its municipal electoral successes in December 1938 and January 1939, the Bund hoped for a breakthrough at the parliamentary elections due in September 1939, but these were de facto cancelled by the German-Soviet invasion.[10]
I considered that possibility but it didn’t mesh with what I remember about Polish Jewry either. I haven’t seen ZDad’s source to change my perception.
Unfortunatly most history classes in seminaries would not tell the students that the Bund was the most popular philosophy in Pre-War Poland. It was shocking when I first heard it (I never even heard of the Bund) and I am sure its shocking to many here who havent heard of this before (if they even heard of the Bund).
In the Smaller Shtelts, most people were still relgious. These changes occured in the big cities like Warsaw, Vilna and Krakow.
And BTW Zionism had actually one of the smallest followings of any pre-war philosophy. Most people were bundists and then alot of the rest were religous who were also anti-zionistic.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.