October 28, 2021 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #2021867
The average wage in Israel is eleven thousand shekels, but
Acording to the times of israel
That isn’t legitimate because of the Inequality
The median wage (which is what half or more of
What the population earn) is only 8000 shekels which is
Shocking as the average cost of rent in Israel for a 1
Bedroom apartment, is 5500. And eight thousand for 2 bedroom.
Which means that isreili spend some seventy percent of they
Salaries on rent and what about transport, food, medical care
It’s a crisis as hashem said eretz Israel is earned through sufererigOctober 28, 2021 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #2022060Reb EliezerParticipant
As a sign of respect, Hashem should be capitalized in English.October 28, 2021 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #2022067provaxxParticipant
However, people who studied English, spelling, grammar and typing probably earn more moneyOctober 28, 2021 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #2022072
Years ago I had a friend who lived in Israel until he was in her early teens, moved to the US, got very well-educated, got an engineering PhD, moved back to Israel. She said back then – early 1970’s – that life is hard in Israel, but she wanted to live there. She was secular but she loved Israel and lives there to this day. If you are thinking that life in Israel is one long picnic – or maybe a long Kiddush or tisch – think again and stay in the US. You are not cut out for it.October 28, 2021 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2022087
grammar, and typingOctober 28, 2021 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #2022102Yabia OmerParticipant
AAQ, I s a machlokes….we were taught not to but a comma before “and”October 28, 2021 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #2022103ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤParticipant
It saunds prety hord if you dont learn how to speilOctober 28, 2021 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #2022105
To AAQ: So glad you added the Harvard comma.October 29, 2021 6:57 am at 6:57 am #2022232
Life is hard in the USA as wellOctober 29, 2021 7:07 am at 7:07 am #2022221
huju: Your friend would do far better for both herself and for Klal Yisroel by living a Torah observant life in the Philippines than by living a secular life in Israel.October 29, 2021 8:33 am at 8:33 am #2022261akupermaParticipant
I am amazed that housing costs the same in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, as it does in less urban places. That happens no where in the world. In general, if one has trouble making ends meet, it is advantageous to move to a less urban area (in the USA, one can leave New York for places such as Baltimore, but in the USA moving to any metropolitan area with no large cities, or to a rural area, is not practical for frum Jews).
For a non-hareidi frum person, finding a job is much easier in Israel, whereas in America many if not most jobs are closed to anyone who is at all frum (defined as Shomer Shabbos, Shomer Kashrus) either because the job requires work on Saturday, or the job requires living in an area where there are no frum shuls or schools). Also note, that if you are a zionist, Israel for all purposes has free public education, whereas in golus one has to pay rather expensive tuition and needs to live in a community with a Jewish school.
Israel is now officially considered to be a developed country, and for frum Jews, depending on profession, there is probably no economic hardship in moving to Israel, especially. For Hareidim, the issue is trickier, since if you oppose the medinah and refuse to serve in their army, the equation on which country is better becomes harder to evaluate.October 29, 2021 9:52 am at 9:52 am #2022264
Did you miss read and I did not do any spelling mistakes
The phone is on automatic editing and it misinterprets
I agree life in the USA is hard.
But not even compareble as I said the median wage
Which is what half of the population earn
Is 8000 shekels and rent is 5500 so that means isreilis spend seventy percent on rent, do you spend that in the usaOctober 29, 2021 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2022265
By the way I don’t live in Israel, I am just Comenting
On realityOctober 29, 2021 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2022266GadolhadorahParticipant
The average wage in EY (roughly $3500/month) is not materially different from those in the U.S. ($3700/month) but subsidies for housing and food vary substantially. In the U.S., frum families have more inertia and are reluctant to move far away from family and frum mosdos and infratstructure to so called OOT locations. Both the U.S. and EY suffer from severe shortages of affordable housing, especially for larger families. Multiple factors make direct comparisons difficult. The data itself is questionable given the U.S. and EY use different metrics to measure those in the work force (the demoninator in the computation of average wages and how data for those working part-time and/or those who have dropped out of the work force are normalized).October 29, 2021 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2022270
“whereas in America many if not most jobs are closed to anyone who is at all frum (defined as Shomer Shabbos, Shomer Kashrus) either because the job requires work on Saturday, or the job requires living in an area where there are no frum shuls or schools).”
akuperma: What on earth are you talking about? The vast majority of jobs in America are available without needing to work on Shabbos and have kosher food in the area. Indeed, most if not all major American cities, where the majority of good paying jobs are located, have frum communities in town.October 29, 2021 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2022278anonymous JewParticipant
In golus one can move to either Florida or Arizona, bith of whom subsidize private school tuition, including parochial schoolsOctober 29, 2021 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2022288
@akuperma, “whereas in America many if not most jobs are closed to anyone who is at all frum (defined as Shomer Shabbos, Shomer Kashrus) either because the job requires work on Saturday, or the job requires living in an area where there are no frum shuls or schools)”
Dont know where you live, but unless your in retail no job requires you to work on Saturday, I see charadi people in all lines of work in the US, from trade people such as plumbers and electricans to doctors and lawyers, PTs, Health care workers, ecommerce and IT, very few Charadi in Israel work in the wide spectrum like in the US.
PS the location issue is hardly a factoor these days because a huge amount of work is remoteOctober 29, 2021 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2022294Yserbius123Participant
I wonder how much of that is skewed by the Chareidishe oilom who choose to live a life of Torah and potential poverty instead of sending their children to the IDF.October 29, 2021 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2022297
To ujm: My friend pays lots of taxes in Israel, served in the army, employs lots of people. If she is replaced by a frum Jew, Israel would lose.October 29, 2021 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #2022305
Which country do you mean by “ey”October 29, 2021 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #2022404
huju: A woman in the army is akin to placing an elementary school student as your local firefighter. That your woman friend pays taxes makes her no different than any other taxpayer. And her employees make her like millions of other small businessmen.
If she became frum, Klal Yisroel would win regardless of where in the world she lived. If she is replaced by a Torah observant Jew, then the world wins.October 29, 2021 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #2022405
Yseribus: If the State removed army service as a condition to permitting citizens to become employed, Chareidim would be in the official workforce in huge numbers.October 30, 2021 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #2022465takahmamashParticipant
“1 Bedroom apartment, is 5500. And eight thousand for 2 bedroom.”
Ummm, what? Perhaps in Yerushalayim or Tel Aviv. Certainly not in other places. Definitely not in Beer Sheva. And believe it or not, not everyone lives in Yerushalayim or Tel Aviv.October 31, 2021 12:25 am at 12:25 am #2022546mobicoParticipant
The cited rental prices are very high for much of Yeurshalayim, too. Perhaps accurate for the center of town. In outlying Chareidi areas 2 bedrooms go for more like 4 to 5 thousand.October 31, 2021 12:25 am at 12:25 am #2022548
common > Life is hard in the USA as well
Moshe Feinstein said that this attitude (or parent, recent immigrants) that made American Jews leave Yiddishkeit in droves. A more positive attitude works in this generation (sometimes even too much for my taste). Note, that in general Americans are more religious than Europeans, despite (?) longer period of religious freedom. As everyone has options, religious leaders are forced to cater to the market. In our market, some of these market variations, such as Reform, turned out to be unpalatable and unpopular in a long term, but within O- I think we are doing better than a 100 years ago.October 31, 2021 1:55 am at 1:55 am #2022588
AAQ: Was Rav Moshe zt’l your friend, that you’re on a first name basis with him?October 31, 2021 10:09 am at 10:09 am #2022641Avi KParticipant
This is what the spies said. A person can live in the Galil or the Negev. A person who works in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem can live on a yishuv. BTW, there are also Hareidi enclaves in places like Ofakim, The Gerrer rebbe, in fact, is telling young couples to live in the periphery where apartments are much cheaper.October 31, 2021 10:10 am at 10:10 am #2022648
@Aviria, I am not talking about the religious aspect of life and the OP is not either, lets stick to the subject matter, I wrote that for the vast majority of the frum people in the US life in not easy street either.October 31, 2021 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #2022889
ujm, Rav is great, Rabban is greater, but the greatest is just the name. Sorry for omitting the ROctober 31, 2021 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #2022897
common, life of most of us, whether frum, frei, or bnei Noach, is better than 99.99% of humanity that lived before us. We are just exhausting ourselves trying to conform to new standards. If we were to keep houses clean by medieval standards, we would do with a monthly vacuum and a washing machine shared by a neighborhood. You could afford it by working a day a week without any government subsidies.November 1, 2021 11:25 am at 11:25 am #2023164
@AAQ, In generations past they didnt have the ability to sit in a ac/ heated house and post stupid comments annoymously on a blog, if they felt urge to make a stupid comment they went to bimah and made that statment and got pelted with rotten vegtablesNovember 1, 2021 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #2023329
Common, you are right! Generally humanity lost evolutional direction. In olden days, not only ignorami will be pelted, but lots of avonos – laziness, negligence, not wearing a mask, will lead to early demise. We all are children of the smartest individuals who were able to avoid childhood sickness and adult risks.. nowadays, weak children and incompetent adults survive and sometimes even run the country….November 2, 2021 10:16 am at 10:16 am #2023556
nowadays, weak children and incompetent adults survive and sometimes even run the country….
Agreed Biggest proof, are mask and vacine mandates and tax and spend policiesNovember 2, 2021 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #2023844
common, based on this discussion, I am moving closer to your position on masks. So far, all baalei chesed were worrying that hospitals will be overwhelmed by amei haaretz and level of care will suffer.
I say now we should take all of them in the same room so that they go through 1st and 2nd infections faster, keeping hospitals at, say, 90% capacity instead of dragging this balagan over months.
Yes, this is my new mandate: everybody has one month to either get a vaccine or participate in a trial getting infected in a controlled environment – say, spending 5 minutes in a room with aerosoled covid. This “controlled natural infection” ™ might be quicker and safer than uncontrolled where someone could be in the same room with infected for hours.
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