September 12, 2020 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1900630
Staffers for Oregon Democrat politicians have personally committed arson. Why don’t Democrats call out antifa? Because they support it.September 13, 2020 1:15 am at 1:15 am #1900883
I know we can’t post actual links here but could you be kind enough to point me to where you got this info? TYVMSeptember 13, 2020 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1900885
Andy Ngo Twitter accountSeptember 13, 2020 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1901205
We have been through this a dozen times. Antifa cannot be billed out because there is no such movement or organization. It is a cross between a western form of martial arts and punk rock fandom.
Since this has not been getting across, I’ll create an example. Suppose some Dodgers fans who are trained to use ninja knives, kill a Giant’s fan. Nobody would be asking the city of LA to condemn it. And everyone would understand that the Dodgers are ballplayers, and not street warriors. Same here. Antifa is not a political ideology. Politicians do not know of it, any more than journalists tell them.September 13, 2020 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1901206
Are you wondering where the wry, or the imaginative, staffers are rioting?September 13, 2020 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1901220
!: There are good arsonists on BOTH sides…..September 14, 2020 7:35 am at 7:35 am #1901271
Hmm Andy, well it appears that the brain damage he received in PTLND back in June 19 has resolved itself.September 14, 2020 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1901375
“Hmm Andy, well it appears that the brain damage he received in PTLND back in June 19 has resolved itself.”
Yes, it does seems that he has recovered from the brain hemorrhage he got from the imaginary group ANTIFA that nomesorah and many on the left keep insisting doesn’t exist (Perhaps because they, and I suspect you, secretly agree and condone their actions)September 14, 2020 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1901448
Are you okay battling opponents that have no definition?
My take on all this antifa stuff is that some have no answer for the issues of the day. So they invent opponents that are easy to ecologically contest. You can win the battle against ghosts. I would rather lose to humans.September 14, 2020 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1901464jackkParticipant
They are a real organization to Trump and his supporters. In fact ,the Trump campaign sent out an “ANTIFA ALERT” to supporters on Saturday as part of a broader effort by President Trump to instill fear of civil unrest and left-wing vigilantes.
This is even as he says his crisis management strategy where he lied for months about the COVID19 pandemic is primarily aimed at maintaining calm.
Trump needs to create a ghost enemy on the left to match the real terrorists – White supremacists organizations on the right.September 14, 2020 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #1901509
Jackk – check the phones of the mueller team, i think they were working on it – oh, wait…they accidentally got vanishedSeptember 14, 2020 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1901513crazy horseParticipant
for there is no fear of heaven in this place. hashem is watching everything you do. very thing you do is written down and there will be a judgment every year and when you die.September 14, 2020 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1901516
They are “a loose collection of groups, networks and individuals who believe in active, aggressive opposition to far right-wing movements” (ADL’s website)
The fact that they don’t have the typical organizational structure doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it means they are harder to root out. Both Federal and State law enforcement have said ANTIFA is involved in the current unrest. I trust law enforcement a lot more than I trust you regarding their existence.September 14, 2020 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #1901523
BK613. I’m not happy when anyone gets hurt. Stop lying. Frankly I think a lot of the violence is due to Black Block that many confuse with Antifa.September 14, 2020 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1901524
Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security and TSA didn’t get the memo from the Trumkopf as to how dangerous the Antifah terrorists are. You may recall the President’s so called “News Conference” (aka a Trump bloviation hour) where repeated the bubba meisa about “planes full of black clad Antifah terrorists” flying TO Washington just before the Republican convention so they could disrupt the events. Its reassuring to know that the TSA security screeners allowed them to board their flights in uniform. Two days later the Trumpkopf was repeating the same story but this time they were flying OUT of Washington, apparently again with the approval of the TSA.September 14, 2020 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1901528
GH your meds ran out?September 14, 2020 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1901533
“I’m not happy when anyone gets hurt. Stop lying”
Your initial post about Mr Ngo appeared quite flippant and dismissive of the brutal and violent attack against him. If that wasn’t your intention then I apologize for misunderstanding.September 14, 2020 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1901559
Really?! You believe global warming exists? This place gets more entertaining every daySeptember 14, 2020 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1901606
This has come up a dozen times. Antifa is not political in that there is no aim or goal affiliated with it’s practice/fandom/fortitude/somebody-here-can-come-up-with-a-better-word. Are many of them troublemakers? Sure. There are troublemakers all over the place. Who cares? There are more real concerns than far out groups.September 14, 2020 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1901605
1: Yup….waiting for the Rx refills but for some reason the post-office has been slow in udeliveries, In the interim, just hunkering down in my basement just like Reb Joe (aka the Delaware Rebbe) until Moishiach arrives on 17 Mar Cheshvan.September 14, 2020 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1901624
“Antifa is not political in that there is no aim or goal affiliated with it’s practice…”
“Individuals involved in the antifa movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist and anti-state views, subscribing to a varied range of left-wing ideologies. A majority of adherents are anarchists, communists and other socialists who describe themselves as revolutionaries” (Wikipedia)
Seems pretty goal oriented to me. But lets be honest nothing anyone says will change your mind because you know better than all the idiot rubes who post here.
“Are many of them troublemakers? ”
Interesting choice of words to describe violent anarchists.
Federal and State law enforcement around the country.September 15, 2020 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1901661
I do not follow how you got a goal out of that. More like an ideological lifestyle.
Any veteran of law enforcement does not harp on this silliness. Why do you del threatened by these fools?September 15, 2020 8:28 am at 8:28 am #1901688
Back to the OP. The police and the FBI stated that this has nothing to do with antifa.
They said fake news reports are taking away precious resources from fighting fires.September 15, 2020 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1901749
“I do not follow how you got a goal out of that. More like an ideological lifestyle.”
Generally when a group is vehemently anti something to the point that they freely justify violence to get what they want, and describe themselves as revolutionaries, they have a goal in mind, namely to apply their ideology to the world.
“Any veteran of law enforcement does not harp on this silliness. Why do you del threatened by these fools?”
Who are these Veteran law enforcement agencies that aren’t harping on this silliness? All I see in the news is police chiefs and the Dept of Justice saying these people are dangerous. Also, which part of the current violence is “silliness”?September 15, 2020 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1901775
“apply their ideology to the world”
The world does not work that way. This is not reality. If anti State sentiment’s bother you, try to figure out what they think. We may as well be discussing a Martian invasion.
These people are dangerous. Currently, they are not a real threat. Protests and riots are not part of their tactics. There is more to the topic. You may have a point. Keep it on point. If you want to talk about revolutionaries in general, than keep it general.
One more point. If the major topic of the day is street violence, than we have to realize all the participants. Singling out one type will do nothing to solve the problem. When you want to stop violence, effective counter measures are called for. Political or partisan rhetoric is useless.September 15, 2020 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #1901810
“The world does not work that way. This is not reality.”
I honestly have no idea what you mean. They are openly ( and too often violently) demonstrating and calling for the downfall of capitalism and western democracy (and also tend to not like the police too much) and their ideas are gaining in popularity. I, and I hope you, can hope they aren’t successful in further spreading their toxic ideology but to compare this issue to “a Martian invasion” is absurd and irresponsible.
“These people are dangerous. Currently, they are not a real threat.”
Law enforcement and the Dept of Justice disagree with you.
“Protests and riots are not part of their tactics”
I can’t even fathom how you wrote this with a straight face.
It looks like this conversation is going nowhere as we seem to disagree on some pretty basic things, so this will be my last post on this topic.September 15, 2020 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1901825
For the most part, Antifa is not associated with the current unrest. Why is this so hard to admit? Do you have no grasp of left wing extremism? You could only say antifa, antifa, as If you have a point?September 15, 2020 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1901849
“Antifa is not political.”
They’re radical communists.September 15, 2020 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1901859
BK I’m nor responsible for your justification for lying, never have been never will be.September 15, 2020 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1901881
There is nothing communal about antifa. Personal autonomy is their thing.September 15, 2020 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1901884
Amil, will you explicitly condemn Andy Ngo’s attackers instead of just saying “I’m not happy when anyone gets hurt?”
If not, how is it different than Trump’s “good people on both sides” line at Charlottesville or “all lives matter”September 15, 2020 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1901908
Why does an online poster have to condemn anyone? Who is listening?September 15, 2020 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #1901910
I am.September 15, 2020 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1901945
BK your blindness towards the Black Block is astounding. You will ignore self admitted anarchists and throw out Antifa as a portmanteau. It doesn’t work that way.September 15, 2020 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1901984
n0mesorah that’s the end goal of Marx. Read a book.September 15, 2020 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1901992
So you won’t condemn it yet call me a liar for suggesting that you might condone and agree with what happened.
I looked up black bloc it and it seems it’s a protesting tactic. And you will never guess which group Wikipedia mentions as frequently associated with this tactic.September 15, 2020 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1901997
End goal of Marx? And now Marx was also advocating specific goals?!? Okay okay, say; international coalitions of skilled laborers. How would that be effected in 2020? Hmm, and there is still no relevance to antifa. You are advancing a very confounding anthropology. This is literally current events. It should not be hard to identify who is who.
What’s a book?September 15, 2020 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1902007charliehallParticipant
The FBI announced today, after months of Justice Department lies that claimed that Antifa was responsible for deadly violence, that the murderer of two California police officers in June was in fact associated with the far right Boogaloo movement.September 15, 2020 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1902004charliehallParticipant
“They’re radical communists.”
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your yeshiva never offered a basic political science class. Antifa is anarchist. Anarchists are the opposite of communists. Instead of an oppressive totalitarian regime, they want no regime at all. Both are awful but anarchists will never be sufficiently well organized to accomplish anything because they are ideologically opposed to organizing.September 16, 2020 7:40 am at 7:40 am #1902033HealthParticipant
Oh Charlie, -“The FBI announced today, after months of Justice Department lies that claimed that Antifa was responsible for deadly violence, that the murderer of two California police officers in June was in fact associated with the far right Boogaloo movement.”
Was the 2 Sheriffs shot in Compton also from Right Wing Nuts or Perhaps he was a Left Wing Loser, like BLM?!?September 16, 2020 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1902182
Boogaloo can be right or left or none. The most visible are right wing racists.September 16, 2020 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1902190
Question to Bk, One, Charlie, and Health: Why does it matter what political leaning fits better with an anarchist group? Anarchists have no relevance to political positions. They are self proclaimed enemies of the state. They do not differentiate between Republican or Democrat. Or capitalism versus communism.
If you are bothered by their activity, then you counter them straight up. By legitimizing all mainstream government leaders and agencies. The issue for these activists is not who is in office.
Let me start the debate from neutral point. Is property damage the same as violence?September 16, 2020 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1902300
But there are political groups that have refused to come out and condemn these groups. At least not as much as the other side.September 16, 2020 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1902342
A politician does not have to condemn every act of violence. It is generally understood that the leaders of the state are for stability.
Occasionally, a condemnation is necessary.
1. When it happens on their watch.
Like, the mayor on citywide violence.
2. When it comes from their demographic.
A black councilman would condemn black violence as a way of moving the dialogue away from race.
3. If the violence came from what they started.
A political rally that turned violent.
4. Where there is a combined goal between the politician and those who are committing the violence.
The politician believes the goal is attainable without getting violent.
5. Where the violence empowers the politician.
The politician will reaffirm his faith in democratic processes.
Now, why does every political group have to come out and condemn all the violent unrest? Solving today’s conflicts, is a long and complex process. Why make it harder with endless condemnations that do not solve anything?September 16, 2020 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1902346
I do not get your point. What do you surmise from that?September 16, 2020 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1902354
I do not get your point. What do you surmise from that?”
It gives the impression that they actually support these events.September 16, 2020 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1902352
I will try to respond to your comments/statements.
“A politician does not have to condemn every act of violence.”
When something as significant and has the effect that these riots and lootings had on the general public, politicians should step up and at minimum voice their opposition to this, otherwise, it seems as if they are for it, not against it.
“1. When it happens on their watch.”
Yet a lot of Democratic politicians not only refused to condemn this, but they also backed these ‘peaceful protests’, But you can also add major politicians that are running for the highest political office in the country into the category that should have come out against it.
“2. When it comes from their demographic.”
Black violence, what’s that?
“Now, why does every political group have to come out and condemn all the violent unrest? Solving today’s conflicts, is a long and complex process. Why make it harder with endless condemnations that do not solve anything?”
Because rioting and hurting innocent citizens on such a grand scale should be condemned, protesting and hurting police officers should be condemned.
What is so hard to understand?September 16, 2020 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1902386
Let’s come straight out and to the point. Do you really thing Joe Biden a politician who was not pro anarchy in the seventies, is supportive of these riots? (Or Harris?)September 16, 2020 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1902385
It is so easy to understand, that it does not have to be continually stated. Trump hates the KKK. But his critics claim he does not in far enough to condemn the group. The only reason Trump is accursed of supporting far right groups, is because he sounds like them. Once his position is known, it is stupid to keep asking him to condemn them. In short, condemning violence to clarify policy is pointless.
You made a different point. That the current trend is so abnormal, that it must be condemned. First, we would have to check the record of who condemned it. Once is enough. Those that harp on it are doing it for political gain. (Which is perfectly legitimate.)
At this point, the protests and riots, have lost their momentum. The agenda-driven activists, have returned to their regular activities. It is clear that the violence is more about a lack of faith in law and order, or truth and justice. The solution is to confront the violence and shut it down. At this time, words ring hollow.September 16, 2020 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1902425
“ Do you really thing Joe Biden a politician who was not pro anarchy in the seventies, is supportive of these riots? (Or Harris?)”
What I think, does not matter. Its the action or inaction of the major politicians or major political candidates that matter.
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