Litvishe chasanim wearing frocks at their chasunas

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  • #1476680

    Mnb098
    Participant

    I’ve noticed what seems to be a new trend amongst yeshivish Israeli chasanim to wear frocks at their weddings. An example would be reb sholom ber Sorotzkins son in law at his chasuna. Pictures of that can be found on the matzav site. Does anybody know if this is an accurate observation and if so why this seems to be happening?

    #1476685

    Joseph
    Participant

    Frocks and even shtreimals are not an inherently Chasidic dress. All Ashkenazic Yidden, including Litvaks and Yekkes, used to wear frocks and shtreimals. When the Russian government, which also ruled Lithuania and Poland at the time, banned the wearing of ostensibly Jewish clothing such as frocks and shtreimals, many communities stopped wearing them. The Chasidim and some others like the talmidei haGra persisted in continuing to wear the traditional Jewish clothing despite the government gezeira against it.

    #1476686

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    This made up minhag is about 30 years old

    #1476695

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    What do you mean by a “frock”?? A kitel, a bekeshe ???

    #1476711

    Mnb098
    Participant

    Gadolhatorah- a kapote like something a Rosh Yeshiva would wear

    #1476712

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Is the kitel worn on the outside or under a coat?

    #1476725

    Mnb098
    Participant

    Outside- they wear it like a suit jacket

    #1476730

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    They wear it by their chasuna and then on Yomim Tovim. I don’t know when it started but it definitely is not new. I saw it done over 20 years ago. By the way the Chazon Ish wrote to Bnei Torah in his Igros; “It is proper to wear a “chaluka derabonon”. That was well over 30 years ago!

    #1476745

    Mnb098
    Participant

    Interesting, I didn’t realize- so it’s common amongst certain litvishe men to wear kapotes on Yom Tov? I’ve never seen this.

    #1476757

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Joseph, where do you get the idea that Yekkes used to wear shtreimels? Also, the ostensible reason that German Jews are called Yekkes is that they wore jackets as opposed to the long coats their eastern brethren wore.

    #1476763

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Litvaks in Lita wore shtreimals and peyos and the Yekkes certainly had long curly peyos like you see on Chasidim now. (There are pictures around; even some of the early mild reformers in Germany still had long peyos and a big Yarmulka.) I think they wore shtreimals too but would have to double check that one.

    #1476776

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Uncle Ben is right. It has turned out to be minhag among Bnei Brak people, and has spread to Bnei Brak type of people elsewhere in Eretz Yisroel. A few people who learned in Ponevezh even do it here in England. They wear a frack (as we Brits would spell the way it’s pronounced) at their Chasuna and then on Yom tov and chol hamoed. Many “Bnei Tayreh” have taken this on, and it gives yom tov a special feeling, with then with their fracks and Belzer chassidim wearing white socks. There is alays a discussion when Shabbos follows Yom tov, do you change back into regular shabbos clothing, or keep the nicer clothing over shabbos as well.

    There is a well known anecdote which may be true. Rav Eli Gurwicz, son of the Gateshead Rosh Yeshiva is married to the daughter of Ponovezh Rosh Yeshiva Rav Berel Povarsky. When he was going to come to Gateshead for Yom Tov for the first time his mother told him, Come for Yom Tov but leave the frack in Bnei Brak.

    #1476768

    Curious1000
    Participant

    Was this chasana in Bnei Brak or Yerushalayim? As far as I can tell from all of the chasanas I’ve been to, it’s the stam minhag in bnei brak while normally not in Yerushalayim.

    #1476788

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The point is to wear it over the kittel and cover up the kittel. It has nothing to do with how people dressed hundreds of years ago.

    #1476835

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    The chasuna where I saw it over 20 years ago was my cousins in Yerushalayim. On one side they are 6 or 7 generations Yerushalmi. They wear a regular long rekel/jacket all other times.

    #1477252

    Toi
    Participant

    I’ve never seen an Israeli chosson not wear one.

    #1477778

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Allegedly the old minhag Ashkenaz was not to wear a kittel under the chuppah. I assume wearing it, but covering it up, is sort of a compromise.

    I have no sources and don’t plan on looking for them since I’m not THAT interested in this. The short answer to the OP is yes, it’s an accurate observation. It’s a widespread trend and you would look weird not following it.

    #1477784

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If this minhag becomes prevalent, how will the guests at the chassanah be able to recognize who is the chassan and who is Lipa Shmeltzer??

    #1477794

    roshvrishon
    Participant

    As far as I know, all my cousins who live in Bnei Brak wore frocks by their chasuna and would wear it every yom tov all their years in Kolle and beyond. it’s not a new trend.

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