February 25, 2018 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1476680
I’ve noticed what seems to be a new trend amongst yeshivish Israeli chasanim to wear frocks at their weddings. An example would be reb sholom ber Sorotzkins son in law at his chasuna. Pictures of that can be found on the matzav site. Does anybody know if this is an accurate observation and if so why this seems to be happening?February 25, 2018 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1476685JosephParticipant
Frocks and even shtreimals are not an inherently Chasidic dress. All Ashkenazic Yidden, including Litvaks and Yekkes, used to wear frocks and shtreimals. When the Russian government, which also ruled Lithuania and Poland at the time, banned the wearing of ostensibly Jewish clothing such as frocks and shtreimals, many communities stopped wearing them. The Chasidim and some others like the talmidei haGra persisted in continuing to wear the traditional Jewish clothing despite the government gezeira against it.February 25, 2018 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1476686Takes2-2tangoParticipant
This made up minhag is about 30 years oldFebruary 25, 2018 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1476695GadolhadorahParticipant
What do you mean by a “frock”?? A kitel, a bekeshe ???February 25, 2018 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1476711
Gadolhatorah- a kapote like something a Rosh Yeshiva would wearFebruary 25, 2018 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #1476712Reb EliezerParticipant
Is the kitel worn on the outside or under a coat?February 25, 2018 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #1476725
Outside- they wear it like a suit jacketFebruary 25, 2018 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #1476730Uncle BenParticipant
They wear it by their chasuna and then on Yomim Tovim. I don’t know when it started but it definitely is not new. I saw it done over 20 years ago. By the way the Chazon Ish wrote to Bnei Torah in his Igros; “It is proper to wear a “chaluka derabonon”. That was well over 30 years ago!February 25, 2018 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1476745
Interesting, I didn’t realize- so it’s common amongst certain litvishe men to wear kapotes on Yom Tov? I’ve never seen this.February 26, 2018 12:26 am at 12:26 am #1476757yehudayonaParticipant
Joseph, where do you get the idea that Yekkes used to wear shtreimels? Also, the ostensible reason that German Jews are called Yekkes is that they wore jackets as opposed to the long coats their eastern brethren wore.February 26, 2018 12:33 am at 12:33 am #1476763JosephParticipant
The Litvaks in Lita wore shtreimals and peyos and the Yekkes certainly had long curly peyos like you see on Chasidim now. (There are pictures around; even some of the early mild reformers in Germany still had long peyos and a big Yarmulka.) I think they wore shtreimals too but would have to double check that one.February 26, 2018 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1476776Geordie613Participant
Uncle Ben is right. It has turned out to be minhag among Bnei Brak people, and has spread to Bnei Brak type of people elsewhere in Eretz Yisroel. A few people who learned in Ponevezh even do it here in England. They wear a frack (as we Brits would spell the way it’s pronounced) at their Chasuna and then on Yom tov and chol hamoed. Many “Bnei Tayreh” have taken this on, and it gives yom tov a special feeling, with then with their fracks and Belzer chassidim wearing white socks. There is alays a discussion when Shabbos follows Yom tov, do you change back into regular shabbos clothing, or keep the nicer clothing over shabbos as well.
There is a well known anecdote which may be true. Rav Eli Gurwicz, son of the Gateshead Rosh Yeshiva is married to the daughter of Ponovezh Rosh Yeshiva Rav Berel Povarsky. When he was going to come to Gateshead for Yom Tov for the first time his mother told him, Come for Yom Tov but leave the frack in Bnei Brak.February 26, 2018 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1476768Curious1000Participant
Was this chasana in Bnei Brak or Yerushalayim? As far as I can tell from all of the chasanas I’ve been to, it’s the stam minhag in bnei brak while normally not in Yerushalayim.February 26, 2018 9:11 am at 9:11 am #1476788Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
The point is to wear it over the kittel and cover up the kittel. It has nothing to do with how people dressed hundreds of years ago.February 26, 2018 10:13 am at 10:13 am #1476835Uncle BenParticipant
The chasuna where I saw it over 20 years ago was my cousins in Yerushalayim. On one side they are 6 or 7 generations Yerushalmi. They wear a regular long rekel/jacket all other times.February 26, 2018 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1477252ToiParticipant
I’ve never seen an Israeli chosson not wear one.February 26, 2018 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1477778Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
Allegedly the old minhag Ashkenaz was not to wear a kittel under the chuppah. I assume wearing it, but covering it up, is sort of a compromise.
I have no sources and don’t plan on looking for them since I’m not THAT interested in this. The short answer to the OP is yes, it’s an accurate observation. It’s a widespread trend and you would look weird not following it.February 26, 2018 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1477784GadolhadorahParticipant
If this minhag becomes prevalent, how will the guests at the chassanah be able to recognize who is the chassan and who is Lipa Shmeltzer??February 27, 2018 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1477794roshvrishonParticipant
As far as I know, all my cousins who live in Bnei Brak wore frocks by their chasuna and would wear it every yom tov all their years in Kolle and beyond. it’s not a new trend.
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