Liz Cheney for President

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    Moishe, Jack, are you card-carrying Communist Party USA members? In Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Egypt and Russia they might jail you if you “watched t.v. for over 3 hours”. That’s called a political prisoner. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you think Democrats can get away with totalitarianism by throwing their political enemies into prison under the pretext of prosecuting the law, they shouldn’t be surprised when they lose the next election they’ll find themselves behind the slammer.


    > As for her bank/stocks etc. – loshan horah and none of our business

    Knowing finances of public figures is not loshon hara. Moshe gave a full accounting in Pekudim, kal v’homer Ms Pelosi should. It is a sad, and corrupt fact that, as I understand, there are only partial restrictions on congressmen trading stocks that they control. Not only it creates either corruption, or appearance of it, but also creates an incentive for them to exercise more control over economy.


    answering you is way too easy, so I won’t bother anymore


    always ask
    true, knowing finances may not be loshon hara, but if you don’t mention trump’s finances (which he conveniently never disclosed) in the same breath, you are being a hypocrite.
    by the way, they could only get Al Capone on his finances, halvai they can get trump on that as well – everything else – he is the sneakiest, slyest man on earth – and will get away with it all.


    note the difference between rich people going in politics, and politicians becoming rich while or after being in office. With the first group, we need to give some leeway for people to protect themselves, otherwise, nobody will go into politics, and we will only have professional politicians. Romney is now considered a standard of a kosher politicians – but his business experience was perverted and laughed at whenever he ran for office against Dems. (caveat: making sure they do not depend on foreign sources is legit).

    My thoughts on Trump specifically:
    1) He was pretty transparent that he does not plan to do tax disclosures before elections. So, voters were able to take that into account
    2) I am pretty much shocked that after so many years of investigations, he is not yet convicted of something. I was pretty sure that he would have been. I can’t imagine the level of kashrus in his business practices, as one of the remaining accusation is giving tzedoka to a Jewish school… Note that it is already documented that at least several people committed crimes or “mistakes” in pursue of these investigations.
    3) level of suspicion should be proportional to expectations. If I hear accusations that T uses his presidency to sell rooms in his hotel, or his daughter gets trademarks approved in China – it is something possible and could be on this or that side of ethical behavior that arise in the course of running businesses that exist for many years. Compare it with a president’s son and uncle with minimal qualifications who get investments and payments from the world hot spots. Totally different level.


    Moishe, for simple comparison:
    imagine Pres. Bush’s wife, a librarian, opening a Chinese or Russian-connected business and earning millions of dollars from that.


    A letter writer to one of the newspapers in N.Y. tried to say that Trump had leadership skills.
    Here is a letter (paraphrased, to protect the innocent) that answers back:
    Just what leadership skills are you touting as those we need from the former sociopathic president? The ability to find the most corrupt people in every agency and get them to do his bidding? The ability to convince those around him to lie about COVID-19, leading to the unnecessary deaths of more than half a million Americans?
    The ability to convince gullible people that he won an election he lost in order to make them march to the U.S. Capitol, erect a gallows on the grounds, break into the building, defecate and urinate on the walls and floors, attack policemen with bear spray and spears and attempt to stop the certification of the newly elected president? The ability to surround himself with people who beg for pardons at the end of his presidency because they know they have committed a plethora of crimes?
    Just what is it that the people who adore this man have been smoking for the past six years? I can understand how someone could be fooled into voting for him once, but anyone who wants him to be president again has got something wrong with them — unless they want to live in a dictatorship, in which case they should move to where his pals rule in Vladimir Putin’s Russia or Kim Jong Un’s North Korea (who, by the way, Trump “loves”).


    moishe, step back for a second, and read some moderate Republicans, some of them like Trump as much as you do. Still, vast majority of them acknowledge that most of his policies were very effective. Some reasonable Dems also acknowledge that, even if they sometimes disagree with them. Note that some of these policies were achieved using “non-orthodox” approaches disregarding conventional advice. Furthermore, same and more people now see that people who criticized him are all hat and no cattle. For example, those who accused him of failing on covid policies because he tried to look macho, now do the same thing themselves and did not achieve as much as he did. same goes for ME policies, Russia, China, employment, etc. So, the question then becomes whether it is possible to find someone who will be as strong on results and with less personal negatives? Lots of Republicans are now talking like T trying to take that role, but, in my opinion, they are more likely to replicate negatives but not positives. I would say that people who were part of Trump’s team or supported his activities in some way (not necessarily all) have track record, such as Pompeo, Pence, Kushner, Mnuchin, Bolton. First two are also electable.

    Reb Eliezer

    Dick Cheney also agrees of the daughter that Trump cannot admit that he lost the election. You cannot improve yourself if you don’t know that you did something wrong.


    Today’s the big day democracy will speak when the voters, in their great electoral wisdom, will give Lying Lizzie the boot by firing her and booting her from office. A win for democracy and a win for America.

    The icing on the cake will be the return of Sarah Palin. If for nothing else than to be the Left’s new boogeywoman.

    Reb Eliezer

    ujm, don’t you respect someone who stands up for their beliefs even by sacrificing their congressional seat? Maybe Trump is the liar?


    Dick Cheney supported a stronger president v congress. If he is not happy with Ts uses of it, he needs to admit that he was wrong


    Veep Richard Cheney was correct. A strong presidency is a strong America.


    Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
    Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
    Wake up – sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
    Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She’s gone where the goblins go,
    Below – below – below. Yo-ho, let’s open up and sing and ring the bells out.
    Ding Dong’ the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
    Let them know
    The Wicked Witch is dead!

    ☕️coffee addict

    Wow ujm,

    I would have never known you watched the wizard of oz but anyways I think she’s more like the knight on the bridge in Monty Python (which I never watched just heard about)


    C”V! How could you be choshed bksheirim? I still have my trusty childhood copy of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum, copyrighted in 1900.


    Who would have thought before 2016 that an American Political Party would throw people out who hold the President to follow the laws of the country ?
    Defund the FBI. Defund the CIA. Repeal the espionage act.
    Attack congress. Kill the VP. Overturn the election.

    The only people who are actually governing and passing laws that help Americans are the Democrats.


    “Tonight, the nation marks the end of the Republican Party. What remains shares the name and branding of the traditional GOP, but is in fact an authoritarian nationalist cult dedicated only to Donald Trump.

    “Liz Cheney stood up to the lawless, reckless attack on our nation led by Donald Trump and millions of Americans saw leadership that transcended ideological boundaries. For standing up to Donald Trump and working to hold accountable those responsible for his violent insurrection, Liz Cheney risked and lost her political career as a Republican.

    “The Wyoming GOP, supported by millions of corporate dollars from Kevin McCarthy, nominated a reality-denying conspiracy theorist who promotes the “Big Lie” and bends a knee to Donald Trump.

    “Liz Cheney showed America what a dedicated public servant driven by principle is like; it’s no wonder today’s GOP hates her. She remains an essential leader of the pro-democracy forces in the United States today and we encourage her to continue to engage in the fight to save our Republic and protect our democracy.

    “The way she fought this race has only increased her stature among people setting aside their partisan differences to fight for democracy. We thank her for her service, and look forward to seeing her next chapter. America needs her and more people like her.”

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “Who would have thought before 2016 that an American Political Party would throw people out who hold the President to follow the laws of the country ?”

    That’s her spin, it’s not why she lost

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Her own big lie, if you will

    Reb Eliezer

    Jackk, very nice.


    I can’t stand Trump but few politicians were more deserving of losing than Cheney.

    Had Cheney (1) given off the impression of conducting a good faith, fair, unbiased investigation and (2) show a tenth of the passion she shows for hating Trump for caring about her constituents she would have been reelected. Being that she didn’t it was a very well deserved loss.

    Trump’s corruption does not make the J6 committee straight and honest . Nor do his personal faults make his opponents into tzadikim. Not even in relation to him.


    smerel, you are right! Even as other Republicans chose not to participate, she had all the leverage to insist on a balanced inquiry and presentation. Instead, she went for a show. It looks like she, and her father, feel that Trump is such a threat that you can use any methods to fight him. This is un-American.


    Smerel and AAQ,

    Sorry, there is no universe that the National Republican Party, the Wyoming Republican Party , or a majority of Wyoming Republicans would have ever supported her again no matter what she did.
    (Maybe you can define what the January 6th committee would look like if it was conducting a good faith, fair, unbiased investigation. You must know more that all the Republicans who testified under oath to the committee. That is exactly who Liz is fighting. The gross idolatry of Trump over the basic American principle that nobody is above the law. )

    The only way forward for her was to completely give up her principles and renounce her fight against the big lie and the most dangerous Liar in American history. There was no other way forward for her.

    A small timeline.
    She was against the big lie way before January 6th. On January 6th while congress was under attack, Liz Cheney slapped GOP Rep. Jim Jordan’s hand and said ‘get away from me, you did this’ when he tried to escort her.
    The republican party removed her from her leadership position of number 3 in congress on May 12. This is after she had voted together with Trump over 90% of the time during his presidency.
    The January 6 committee was only setup on July 1.

    In 2021 and 2022, she also voted almost always with the Republicans. And she has taken care of her constituents.
    The only thing that changed was that she was not letting Trump get away with his lies.

    She lost to someone who has no political experience and lost the last time she ran. The only thing Hageman has is that she idolizes Trump.
    Hageman joins Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene in lowering the average IQ of the Republican congressmen.

    But there is a silver lining for Liz, and a thorn in the side of the Republicans that voted against her, is that she plans to run for President. This means she gets on stage with Trump and other Republicans during debates and call them out with facts.


    Jackk. I won’t argue with your perception but I will say Cheney was the one for who the election was all about (dis)loyalty for Trump. Not Hageman.

    Hageman for all her alliance with Trump did not run on the platform of “I’m Trump’s heir…I will keep the legacy of Trump etc.” She ran on issues that resonated with the voters in Wyoming that she could have stressed even were Trump to never have existed. Other than pure hating Trump what reason did Cheney give for anyone to vote for her?

    People like yourself should realize that for all your faulting and claiming the Republican party is the party of Trump in reality it is people like yourself who are the ones truly obssessed with and willing to revolve all politics around Trump.

    Amil Zola

    Its interesting to note that the counties Cheney carried were among the most educated in the state.


    What’s interesting about that, Amil? That it was The Deplorables that sunk Cheney?

    ☕️coffee addict

    Mods? That was totally uncalled for and I’m surprised you let it through


    Jackk, fair hearing would be ones conducted by choshen mishpat rules: witnesses are called live and cross examined by two sides, etc impeachment hearings were reasonably kosher even if pointless. Ultimate power play: you show respect to the person when he is a president and can maybe leak your personal conversations but abandon fairness when he lost that power. Maybe that was the reason for the raid. They were afraid there were NSA recordings at Mara Lago

    ☕️coffee addict




    That is not what a committee hearing is about.
    I am sure that you understand that there is a difference between a congressional hearing and a court case. As I have noted before on the CR that this is not a court case is poshut. Where is the defendant, prosecutor, Judge, Jury, Attorneys for the defendant, and what penalty is going to be given to the non-existent defendant ?

    A committee hearing by congress is to gather information.
    Many of the January 6th insurrections have already been dealt with by the Legal system. Many are still waiting prosecution.
    Almost all of them have regretted participating in the attack.

    And even in a court case, you want choshen mishpat in the Goyishe courts of America? Would you apply that to every law in America? Marijuana possession? Geniava ?(Conservatives love throwing these guys in jail for decades.)



    “Other than pure hating Trump what reason did Cheney give for anyone to vote for her?”
    She lost in a REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. She lost to the people who voted for her 2,4, and 6 years ago!
    Not because she hadn’t delivered for them.
    She voted with Trump and the Republicans over 90% of the time and she has delivered for them.

    The National Republican and Wisconsin Republican parties had abandoned their support for her.
    It is very hard to win an election in a primary , if your party does not support you. Hageman was supported only because she was now a supporter of the BIG LIE.
    Hageman, a former Wyoming Cruz delegate, who advised Cheney 2014 and campaigned for her in 2016, once openly described Trump as “racist and xenophobic,” and the “weakest” contender the Republicans could put forth.

    Hageman had already lost and election and has never delivered anything. So she was a terrible candidate compared to Liz Cheney.

    The only thing that changed is that Cheney wouldn’t let the Republican party lie about losing and overthrowing the election and Hageman did.


    >>>Hageman was supported only because she was now a supporter of the BIG LIE.

    Um… no. I’m guessing you are copying and posting your comment from some liberal website because no one familiar with the campaign could have come to that conclusion.

    Hageman did not campaign on her views on Trump. You could passionately hate Trump and still vote for her because you agreed with the issues she raised during her campaign.

    It was Cheney who campaigned on a platform of demanding absolute unquestioning loyalty to her view on Trump with zero allowance for nuance or shades of gray. And did not allow any other issues facing Wyoming to be a factor in her campaign.

    No surprise that she lost so badly. I can’t stand Trump but would have voted for Hageman over Cheney any day.


    Jackk, goyim have a mitzvah to have just courts and we should assist them. McCarthy was also just collecting information, and more important and his search of commies was more successful, but Americans somehow decided it went too far



    Please explain 3 Wyoming Republican issues on which you would have rejected Liz Cheney and instead have voted for Hagemen because for you she was better on those issues.

    This is all based strictly on the issues.

    I am assuming that you are saying that even if Liz Cheney, who has Republican values in her blood from birth, would have propagated Trump’s lie , continued as the 3rd spot in Congress, been supported by the National and Wyoming Republican parties – you would still have voted for Hageman because of her promises on these issues.



    “goyim have a mitzvah to have just courts and we should assist them” . What does that have to do with the January 6th committee ? (On a different thread you were defending the killing of the Rosenbergs based on the testimony of a relative , a nogea bdavar , who was trying to save his own life How does that shtim?)
    McCarthy(ism) has nothing to do with this conversation. The government is required to get to the bottom of an attack on the capital – who was involved, why they were involved and what their ultimate goals were.


    jackk, proceedings need to provide minimal standards of fairness. With Rosenbergs and other spies, they were all involved in helping Soviet murderers in various ways, all of that made them deserving punishment.

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