May 12, 2021 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1973456
She said, if our democracy is involved, we cannot be silent. The Republican just revealed their true colors by ousting her. There is an old Hungarian saying, if you tell the truth, your head will be smashed in.
See https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1973432/house-gop-ousts-trump-critic-liz-cheney-from-top-post.htmlMay 12, 2021 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1973715
Liz Cheney is a hack. Haliburton dark money swamp rat.May 12, 2021 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1973717Yserbius123Participant
Liz Cheney and her father have been some of the most conservative, right-wing, voices in DC. She’s been an adamant and unwavering supporter of Israel her whole career. She’s staunchly conservative on all the family values issues that much of the frum oilom holds dear.
But she doesn’t like Trump.
Her ouster is disappointing. The GOP has moved from being the part of conservatives to the party of “Trump no matter what”.May 12, 2021 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1973720
Every baal mochlokes claims to be standing up for truth and higher principles. As the Chazon Ish said said “It’s an aveira to lie but saying the truth isn’t always a Mitzva.” (i.e. Sometimes you should just keep quiet)
Whether she is right or wrong about this issue is irrelevant. No group would or should keep someone who is constantly picking public fights with other members of the group in a leadership position.May 12, 2021 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1973761torahvaluesoverpartyParticipant
Liz was definitely a strong conservative voice, but if you’re not willing to address the concerns of your base, then bye bye.May 12, 2021 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1973769
It says hoemes vehasholam ehovu, says the Maharam Shik that emes must come before Shalom.May 12, 2021 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #1973779
Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel says that the world stands on three pillars, judgement (which can be a peshara, compromise), truth and then peace.May 12, 2021 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1973788
Smerel, my heart breaks. Of course it matters whether she is right or wrong! Otherwise, you are essentially saying that a group of people should define their own “truth” and should oust a leader who doesn’t agree with their “truth.” Can’t we agree that emes matters? And that we should respect leaders who speak emes?May 12, 2021 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1973816
Yes, TorahValues, that’s why Moshe Rabbeinu danced around the Eigel hazahav. Because true leaders should always follow whatever sheker their people want to believe in.May 12, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1973828
There is major difference between opinion and fact. The things she said are subjective. No one can say with certainty they are true or not. Her opinion is that they are true. The other side says that they aren’t.
Her still bringing this up month later and still insisting on calling the other side “mobsters” and other names is just picking a fight for the sake of a fight . Not standing up for truth. Even if like all baaley machlokes she insists that is her motive.May 12, 2021 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1973865
Reb Eliezer you’re pretty quiet about bigger issues that have happened recently. Has TDS gotten so far up your brain?May 12, 2021 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1973846
We go by majority and an accepted fact by the majority is the truth which the minority must disprove. We pasken like the Beis Hilel being in majority.May 12, 2021 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1973881
I’m not sure I understand the subjectivity here. Are you saying there is a valid tzad that the election was stolen? If you feel it is a valid tzad, this conversation is pointless. I love you because you are a member of am yisroel, but I think you’re mamash off your rocker. And if it’s not a valid tzad, and Trump is indeed spouting total sheker to maintain power, the term “mobster” probably isn’t strong enough for him and his enablers.May 12, 2021 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1973899
Whatever. I didn’t say anything about stolen elections .
Never try to reason with a guy who has Trump Derangement Syndrome so no further commentMay 12, 2021 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1973906☕️coffee addictParticipant
“It says hoemes vehasholam ehovu, says the Maharam Shik that emes must come before Shalom.”
One is allowed to lie (or better yet change the truth) for שלום see what Hashem said to avraham
“We go by majority and an accepted fact by the majority is the truth which the minority must disprove. We pasken like the Beis Hilel being in majority.“
The reason we passed like בית הלל is because they were nicer not because of a majorityMay 12, 2021 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1973916Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
>> One is allowed to lie (or better yet change the truth) for שלום
There are bunch of caveats to that. One is from Besht – if you inappropriately lied at least once in your life, you can’t do it. So you got to be either 100% honest or a litvak to use it…
A child should not do it until he mastered the art of being completely truthful, and you should not do it in front of a child (Story of Rav and his wife sending him wrong dish, and the son “correcting” the order). May apply to some here.May 12, 2021 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1973917
coffee addict, the Beis Shamai said to accept everyone with a pleasant disposition. We pasken like the Beis Hilel because they wanted to arrive to the truth by hearing the Beis Shamai’s view first. The baas kol said to follow them even though the Beis Shamai was sharper as the pasuk indicates majority in quantity and not quality. The Ran explains that we have to undestand currently a view we follow with human understanding and Rebbi Eliezer was not understood and so the Beis Shamai. When meshiach will come, we will have a new understanding, so we will pasken like the Beis Shamai as the majority will come to understand their view and accept their view. According to you why pasken then like the Beis Shamai?May 12, 2021 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1973918ParticipantParticipant
from a practical perspective I can’t see what purpose Cheney’s fight picking has. from a factual perspective I can think of no reason to8oust her. from a political perspective, I think republicans just shot themselves in the foot.
I don’t actually know what Cheney said or didn’t say. just opinionating based on the complaints.May 12, 2021 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1973925n0mesorahParticipant
So tell us, what subjective things was she discussing? Because she cut a clear case on Tuesday night.May 12, 2021 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1974007
Participant let’s see how about going against a republican president in an election year when there are other Republicans up for election?May 13, 2021 12:04 am at 12:04 am #1974015ParticipantParticipant
what? I have no clue what you’re talking about.May 13, 2021 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1974025Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
RebE, coffee – I think they are both right. b’ Hillel had more integrity in their learning (quoting others first) and, therefore, they became a majority as it was clear to the students that they are not being sold a biased view. Like when some media or posters say something that does not smell right, you either dismiss them, or go double-check and find out the facts that they were trying to avoid…
you can even say – if you stopped by B’ hillel and learned both opinions, presented with integrity, why bother and shlep to b’ Shammai to hear the opinio you already heard? you would do it a couple of times to double-check, but after you confirm that B’ Hillel transmits b’ Shammai correctly, you can as well sit in b’ Hillel and get two classes for the price of one.
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