Lna’ar Hazeh Hispalalti? The Dissonance of Redemption

AAQ Please do read the ‘whole long post’ if you want to understand what I am actually saying.

AAQ: So, Jews – and non-Jews – serving in the American army deserve their level of respect. How does this contradict the fact that IDF protects Jews in Israel?

It doesn’t. But American GIs aren’t “kedoshim”. They do deserve “their level” of respect. But the “sheep to the slaughter” (including the עשרה הרוגי מלכות for goodness sake…) deserve MUCH MORE respect than them, not less.

AAQ: I did not read this whole long thread, so I may be not following this. Are you in the camp of “Jews could have lived in other places”?

This isn’t at all the subject of my post. ZSK went back “2000 years”. Including ALL the REAL קדושים of all time, and threw them under the bus of כחי ועוצם ידי machismo.

AAQ: This is not true historically – before WW2 and after WW2, there was no place in US or UK for all Jews of Europe. Same for Sephardi and Soviet Jews, majority of whom found a save place in Israel. Undoubtedly, early zionists and state of Israel saved Jewish lives.

(Note that this has nothing to do with anything I wrote, but if you asked already…)

Baloney. There was much more infrastructure and local Jewish wealth in the US and other places than there was in ‘British Palestine’. It would have been easier and safer for Jews to go to other places. The Zionists (including Stephen Wise who advised Roosevelt on “Jewish matters”) wouldn’t hear of it. You also seem to assume that any Jew who wanted to move to EY during the 30s could do so freely. That was not true. Mainly because of the Arab backlash to Zionism and the resultant British fear of unrest in Muslim parts of their empire.

AAQ: Furthermore, in terms of assimilation, Israeli Jews are fairing much better than those who settled elsewhere. Even those who are not religious, have a high chance of marrying someone Jewish.

So what, that has nothing to do with who is or isn’t a קדוש, and what Judaism says about the value or lack thereof of “going down with a fight”. Someone pointed out yesterday that Ben Gurion’s own son managed to marry a shiksa and live with her in Israel. So “stopping intermarriage” wasn’t why they made Israel, was it…

Shimon> There are more Halachically and technically viable solutions now than there ever were, which could be applied nationwide

great that this is happening. You can also probably remotely control the grid – one Yid in US and one in Australia might cover the whole shabbos.

YYA> that way are just copy-pasting Goyish kefirah ideas into a pseudo-Jewish context to ape the secular Zionists they hold dear

I partially agree with you here, and that is why we need to review all kind of claims. R Soloveitchik was unhappy when RCA distributed Mizrachi ideas about new holidays and such, saying that Rabbis are responsible for that, and political organizations should not be in the business of guiding observance. I think this is the same sentiment as you express.

I would note that Judaism reacted to non-Jewish ideas and pressure in various ways in history – sometimes copy-pasting, sometimes opposing. Would you suggest any correlation between R Gershom ban on polygamy to Europeans not liking it, while Sephardi Jews had no problem with it? Rambam borrowing greek and arab philosophy and science. Overall, developing of Spanish Jewish philosophy in response to xian attacks and persuasion. One could say that Yidden don’t need no philosophy. Or, as R Soloveitchik remarks – if such philosophy was developed during Greek/Roman times and Jewish ideas would be fully absorbed, then non-Jews could have had a better religion than what they got by trying to adapt Judaism on their own.

ZSK

In the event of a Halachic government in Eretz Yisroel (before or after Moshiach, the technical challenges would be basically the same), there לכאורה need not be a shutdown of the electric grid. Bnei Brak and Modiin Illit both already have citywide electric grids for Shabbos under Chareidi Halachic supervision (which serve as backup generators for the national grid during the week = win-win for all). I believe they use more automation (they are much newer than most of the national electric infrastructure) and non-Jewish Shabbos supervisors. Something along these lines could conceivably be implemented on a national level if it was a priority for the government, which it would be in a Halachic state.

Fire and emergency services are completely מותר on Shabbos לכל הדיעות.

Police could employ more non-Jewish officers (there already are a lot of them anyway). That would probably be sufficient for regular beat policing. Jewish commanding officers could be on call at the station in Shabbos mode to be available in the event of a more complex situation, and to call in additional (Jewish if need be for true Pikuach Nefesh scenarios) officers using Hatzalah style radios. Jewish police could be required to be present and prepared at the station to be on call if needed. All of this could be fine tuned by consultation between police experts and Poskim to some sort of system that would be acceptable to both.

The airports, seaports, radio and television would actually shut down completely for 24 hours like they do already on Yom Kippur.

The Kohanim would bring the Korban Tamid, Minchas Chavitin, Mussaf, Ketores, Lechem Hapanim, and light the Menorah. The Leviim will sing Mizmor Shir LeYom HaShabbos and Shiras Ha’azinu.

Everything else would be closed for Shabbos.

When the Sanhedrin declares Rosh Chodesh or Ibbur Shana, everyone’s Calendar App automatically updates. That would raise an interesting question whether Rosh Hashanah would still need to be two days. Moshiach will need to figure that one out…

mdd1 said – YYA, on a different note: there are reports about negotiations (between the Chareidi leadership and others) to pass the Chareidim draft law. So, what happened to the money that was sure to arrive from chutz la’Aretz which would allow the Chareidim to be independent?

Until now there were no ‘draft laws’? So they’ll fudge another draft law and the politicians will have some quiet until after the elections and then the Supreme Court will strike the law down again and then… So what? עולם כמנהגו נוהג. I have lived here for almost 30 years and it happens again and again and again. And there are always people (including some who wear kipot, with or without two-sided tape to keep it attached to their bald spot) who gloat about how THIS TIME will be different and soon Chareidi society will collapse and they’ll all come running to the IDF and yada yada… Not impressed. Talk to me 50 years from now. The Chareidim aren’t going away. The Chilonim are dying out of population collapse. The RZ for the most part will learn to be OK with the Chareidim (who they share more common ground with than they sometimes think) and those who won’t will go down the demographic sewer with the Chilonim at a slightly slower pace. Do you have a better vision for the future of the Secular Israelis? They don’t really have one themselves, so they avoid thinking about it…