March 27, 2020 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1843654MistykinsParticipant
This question is based off a discussion I heard others having, and I want to hear your opinion on it.
I understand we have to take measures to protect ourselves during the outbreak. But when we have followed traditions and laws for so long, are there long-term damages from children seeing the rules get changed for the virus?
The schools closing is one thing. But nomore minyanim, per the rabbis rules. Davening biyichidus is now the way to go. I recently read that people are allowed to use the Zoom app during Seder to stay connected with loved ones.
How will these broken rules affect children when the world gets healthy? Will we lose children to the belief that if they were fine with exceptions in a difficult time, then there is no issue with keeping the exceptions any other day?March 27, 2020 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #1843733jdbParticipant
You will never lose children from following psak hallacha to save their, and your life. You will show them what it means to follow hallacha, even when it says to stop davening with a minyan. This is nothing new in the history of klal yisrael., It has happened before, and we followed the guidance and are still going strong. Be strong, and don’t fall into the yetzer harah to find an underground minyan. It’s kneged hallacha and a Shayla or retsicha.
I know a few sefardi rabbanim gave a heter for zoom in extreme circumstances, but this was not meant as a blanket allowance as many gedolim have clarified.March 27, 2020 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1843734akupermaParticipant
The worst danger is if this turns out to be unnecessary. While one won’t know for a while, it is quite possible that almost everyone will be exposed to COVID 19, and 80% will develop immunity without getting so sick they need to see a doctor or go to the hospital, and that the death rate when recalculated based on everyone who had the virus (rather than everyone sick enough to get tested and/or hospitalized) will turn out not to be much higher than the regular flu, and concentrated among the sick and elderly (similar to regular flu).March 27, 2020 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1843738Edmark1234Participant
“we have followed traditions and laws for so long” If you or children are feeling detached from yiddishkeit
in short YOU have to reinvent YOUR Judaism that doesn’t revolve around social pressure. I dont mean change any mitzva or halacha rather change your view of habitual social Judaism
In truth Judaism shouldn’t be any less in times like these because at the moment we are NOT REQUIRED to go to minyan etc.March 27, 2020 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1843740GadolhadorahParticipant
Good question. Its always a challenge with children to explain a departure from norms you have instilled in them in a way that they understand its a ONE TIME change in the rules justified by the circumstances. Younger children may not remember…older ones will understand the one=time nature of the change. Its those in the “middle” where there is a need for using the right words and the right tone to rationalize the change so they don’t take it upon themselves in the future to decide when its “OK” to ignore the hashkafah you have struggled to provide them.March 27, 2020 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1843752lowerourtuition11210Participant
It’s a big opportunity to teach our children how we listen to our gedolim .March 27, 2020 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1843764lowerourtuition11210Participant
mistykins you wrote “I recently read that people are allowed to use the Zoom app during Seder to stay connected with loved ones.” Where did you read this?March 27, 2020 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #1843809JosephParticipant
The Zoom so-called heter was a farce and ludicrous.March 27, 2020 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #1843793ubiquitinParticipant
” seeing the rules get changed for the virus?
The schools closing is one thing. But nomore minyanim, per the rabbis rules. Davening biyichidus is now the way to go”
The rules arent changing
There is one rule to do ratzon Hashem .
A person never skips a day of tefilin should he weat tefilin on Shabbos? when he is an onen? Of course not.
But what abotu about the rule of tefilin?
The same boorei olam to whom we daven said we shoudl follow doctor’s advice and care for our lives.
“vThe worst danger is if this turns out to be unnecessary.”
Still with this stupidity? Are you still unsure? At thsi point no reasonable person who values life can say these distancing wasnt neccesary . You say “t is quite possible that almost everyone will be exposed to COVID 19, and 80% will develop immunity without getting so sick ”
How do you still not get this. Of course it is possible. THAT is PRECISELY what we expect to happen.
But 20% of “almost everyone” is a lot of people. in NYC 20% is 1.6 million people sick. If a quarter of them need ha hospital that is 400,000 people for 23, 000 beds (most of which are full before this started) we need to slow down the surge yes most will get it hospitals are already strainedMarch 27, 2020 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1843798commonsaychelParticipant
Its a great teaching moment, I grew up hearing from survivors who were forced to be mechall Shabbos to escape, who gave babies to goyim to live, who fast for two days straight on tsha bav, all of this was done in consultation with a Rav, its says in perkay avos asay lecha rav, if he says daven beyichdos do so, if he says daven with a bare minyan outdoors with proper distance then do so. I don’t understand this dor acting so helpless and stupid when the prior dor dealt with a lot tougher issues.March 27, 2020 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1843816mattisyahuParticipant
There are no broken rules. The only ones who think there are broken rules here are those whose yiddishkeit is an external social act and not an internal understanding of what God demands from them. Not sure how you can teach your children what yiddishkeit is better than a situation like this where the norms are called into question. There is much to learn. If instead you were running to minyanim when doctors and then rabbonim were saying not to, as your kids get older and understand more what occurred at this time they may really wonder what you were thinking.March 27, 2020 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1843926zahavasdadParticipant
As I read the Home page of YWN and see all the Petriot, and you are concerned about Minyanim?
I am sure all those families who lost a loved one have suffered more long term damage than someone who didnt daven with a MinyanMarch 29, 2020 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1844274thetruthiseekParticipant
during the holocaust, many risked their lives for a tfillah btzibur, a moment of wearing tefillin, a tiny morsel of matzah, when one wrong step meant a literal bullet in the head. it is very understandable for people to want to continue the chain of mesiras nefesh started by their parents and grandparents by davening with a minyan(all the more so now– there are no nazis waiting around the corner to shoot us)
.March 29, 2020 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1844321Doing my bestParticipant
When someone sacrifices their OWN life for a mitzvah we call it mesiras nefesh.
When someone sacrifices someone else’s life for a mitzvah we call it retzichah.
If you can’t understand that then you should have a very long talk with a qualified orthodox rabbi.March 29, 2020 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1844332mattisyahuParticipant
thetruththis eek – You are corrupting Judaism with this thinking. The holocaust was a time of shmad when the Nazis were targeting Jews. There is much to be said about risking lives to engage in a minyan at such a time. This time is an epidemic and not shmad. When you participate in the minyanim you are causing the deaths of yidden. Also I have no idea to what extent people engaging in minyanim during the holocaust resulted or changed in any way whether other people die. In this time, if you engage in minyanim you are a rodef. Enough with the stupidity and murder being caused by people who are willfully blind to what is going on. The other day, a UK study suggested that a 26 foot distance is necessary for social distancing.
It should also be mentioned that social distancing is not a solution at this time. When there is community spread, isolation is the solution. As it is impractical to not have people get some exercise, get food, and take care of some other minimal essentials, social distancing is recommended as a way to minimize the spread (not to stop it.. and we are in a time when medical supplies are in short-order, so this is a big deal). Perhaps when there is no community spread and testing and contact tracing can be an effective method to contain this, then social distancing can be relied on to help prevent another breakout.March 29, 2020 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1844405ywnjudyParticipant
On a tangent, I’m not the least worried about CV compared to the decades i’ve endured until now. In fact, it could be many tzadikim were niftar of CV in order to spare them the worst yet to come. To put it subtly, there’s a huge bag of tricks ongoingly orchestrated by the sitra achra. Just listen to R’Alon Anava and some others. Also, approx. 2 months ago there was a Rav Pinto (Morocco?) who offered a strong prophetic warning.
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