January 23, 2013 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #607925Shraga18Participant
Someone I know is contemplating moving to Montreal. They’re looking for information on schooling, cost of living (large family), communities (they’re yeshivish) etc etc.
Any and all information appreciated!January 24, 2013 12:06 am at 12:06 am #925069YW Moderator-007Moderator
(From the left toolbar)January 24, 2013 12:30 am at 12:30 am #925070PLONIALMONI4Member
Montreal has a very small yeshivish community. My friend who lives tells me that the community is very hospitable but very insular in the Yeshiva area.
There is only one Yeshivah there which has gone through a bitter era in terms of politics or a very Hungarian type of Yeshivah (Chassam Sofer type).
It is FREEZING there in the winter and once outside the community it is very difficult to get anything done unless you speak French.
Tell your friend to move to DetroitJanuary 24, 2013 1:02 am at 1:02 am #925071welldressed007Participant
However, if you are still moving to Montreal chat with Rabbi Meshulam Emmanuel, head of Montreal Kashrus. He is very helpful and knowledgeably of local conditions.January 24, 2013 1:07 am at 1:07 am #925072
I grew up in the yeshivish community in Montreal (and still have plenty of family there). I can answer any specific questions anyone might have.
Montreal is a great city and the frum community has many wonderful people in it.January 24, 2013 2:15 am at 2:15 am #925073147Participant
Do you sharaga18 have immigration papers for Canada? BTW:- Since moving to Quebec Province, there are additional documents that you may require.
Needless to say, make sure that you can communicate & converse in French. After all, Montreal is the 2nd biggest French speaking city, on this planet.January 24, 2013 5:47 am at 5:47 am #925074TheBearIsBackMember
The yeshivish community in the deVimy area is a small, but influential one (Rav Hirschprung was the rosh yeshiva for many years). Real estate is cheaper, but not that much cheaper, than in US cities, but the price of kosher food is very high. Very reliable, non-profit local kashrus – considered mehadrin outside Montreal.
Some problems with French extremists and Muslims, but still much safer than many other places. The French problem is one nut and one city legislator in the Chassidishe area, and Muslims who start up are dealt with very severely by law enforcement.
Cold winters, snow starts melting around Pesach if you’re lucky.
You CAN survive in the Yiddishe velt without French, but only if you stay exclusively within the community. To work outside it, you need French.
Isn’t Rabbi Emanuel’s first name Shaul?January 24, 2013 9:32 am at 9:32 am #925075Geordie613Participant
Very strange to answer this on a forum, I have known Rabbi Emanuel for over 35 years.
His english name is Saul, hebrew name Meshulem.
Jewish Community Council of Montreal
(514) 739-6363January 24, 2013 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #925076
You can manage in Montreal, living in one of the Jewish communities, without speaking french. You will pick up some french once you are there and it definitely shouldn’t be something to worry about with respect to moving there.
Rent is relatively cheap (compared to Brooklyn or Monsey). But to buy a house in the Yeshivish neighborhood is expensive (more expensive than Monsey but less than Flatbush).
When people say the Yeshivish community is small, that is only compared to the Greater NY area communities. It is as big or bigger than Detroit, Cleveland, Miami and others.
There are a lot small shuls but no real big shuls and everything within the Yeshivish community is in walking distance. Because Montreal has significant Chasidish, Lubavitch, Sephardi and MO communities as well there is plenty of Kosher food.
There are two Yeshivos that run from Nursey through High School and there is one Bais Medrash (that has fallen on hard times lately but was great when I went there). There is a large Bais Yakov and Seminary.January 24, 2013 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #925077Shraga18Participant
Can someone tell me a little more about the Chinuch and the religious level of the Yeshiva community? How good are the schools? Do they give a good, solid education (from the religious perspective)? What’s the situation with the youth? Are there more/less/the same amount of problems than in yeshivish communities in the U.S.?January 24, 2013 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #925078
My information is a little behind the times because I haven’t actually lived in the community in 10 years (but I go back to visit often).
The Yeshivish community if very frum (it is definitely frummer now than when I grew up) and getting frummer. I think the education through high school in the more litvish Yeshiva is very good (I can’t comment on the more heimishe Mesivta). The high school rabbeim are very good. I can’t really comment on the Bais Yaakov because I never went there.
There are less problems there than in Yeshivish communities in the US. They are 10-15 years behind in terms of the problems.January 24, 2013 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #925079
the yeshivas in montreal are really very good. in the “devimy” area, there are 2 yeshivas. one is more, what we can describe as, communal (a mix of yeshivish, lubavitch, sefardim, etc.) the other yeshiva is more hungarian-semi-chassidish/heimish, with all limudei kodesh in yiddish.
no major problems in the youth sector, though no city is perfect in this area. but in general perspective a very fine yeshiva system, and most boys are really really good.
agav, this week, montreal will host its annual siyum hamishnayos which will bring in boys from ottawa, ny, lakewood, and other cities, and is a major highlight of the boys’ year.
the bais yakkov school is top notch education wise and the girls who have gone through that school are generally frum, well-behaved, tzniusdik girls.January 24, 2013 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #925080DaMosheParticipant
I heard that the yeshiva there had some difficulties after R’ Altusky left to go to Darchei Torah in Far Rockaway. He was very popular, and some guys from the yeshiva followed him there. Afterwards, some people who would have gone to Montreal went to Darchei Torah instead.January 24, 2013 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #925081
DaMoshe -“I heard that the yeshiva there had some difficulties after R’ Altusky left to go to Darchei Torah in Far Rockaway. He was very popular, and some guys from the yeshiva followed him there. Afterwards, some people who would have gone to Montreal went to Darchei Torah instead.”
The Yeshiva was started by R’ Baron zt’l. It was taken over by R’ Glustein. They brought in R’ Weinberg zt’l from NY. He was an attraction for out-of-town Bochurim. His son-in-law took over after him. It was and still is R’ Glustein’s Yeshiva. I don’t think he is the type that is interested in having or at least interested in going out of his way to have out-of town Bochurim.
Btw, I knew/met all these people.January 24, 2013 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #925082
Shraga18 -“Someone I know is contemplating moving to Montreal. They’re looking for information on schooling, cost of living (large family), communities (they’re yeshivish) etc etc.”
The biggest problem that I found with Moreal is that the Frum communities are not cohesive. What do I mean? When you live in such a Golus amongst Antisemitic French and lots of Muslims, the Frum communities would fare much better if they were all next to each other. Eg. Toronno, basically is cohesive. It started around Bathurst and moved up. When you go to visit the different communities -you’ll see what I mean.
Also, for people not used to very cold, it can be challenging.January 24, 2013 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #925083
While Reb Mottel Zt”l was alive, he was undoubtedly in control of the ruchnius of the Yeshiva. Recently, and in my mind terribly, R’ Glustein was removed from his position (and then brought back in as Rosh Yeshiva Emiritus) and R’Zeffren was forced to retire.
This isn’t really relevant but the Yeshiva’s history before R’Glustein came back from Telz is more complicated. Merkaz Hatorah was started by R’Baron Zt”l and Yeshiva Gedola was started as a branch of Chofetz Chaim. They merged and became Yeshiva Gedola Merkaz Hatorah about 45 years ago under Rabbi Glustein’s leadership.January 24, 2013 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #925084
benignuman -“While Reb Mottel Zt”l was alive, he was undoubtedly in control of the ruchnius of the Yeshiva. Recently, and in my mind terribly, R’ Glustein was removed from his position (and then brought back in as Rosh Yeshiva Emiritus) and R’Zeffren was forced to retire.”
Who’s running the place now? Unless he’s doing a bad job, I don’t understand your comment of “Recently, and in my mind terribly, R’ Glustein was removed from his position (and then brought back in as Rosh Yeshiva Emiritus)”!January 24, 2013 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #925085
Tell your friend to STAY AWAY from possibly the worst place to live in North America.
Besides for the fact that it is like Siberia there for 9 months of the year. The kehilla there is NOT thriving, contrary to what folks there will have you believe. The kehilla there is shtetl style. Very yentish and of course clickish. The local hechsherim, are unfortunately sub-par by american standards, the MK and Sfardi hechsherim would be a joke in Brooklyn or Lakewood. As for yeshiva there, it was driven into the ground years ago. No rosh yeshivos ever came out of that place. The French (and English) hatred of the yidden there is palpable. The list of chesroinis can really go on and on. There are NO advantages whatsoever in living there. Everyone I know leaves that place eventually unless they have a family business to manage!January 24, 2013 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #925088
It is sad that you have such a bad view of Montreal. I completely disagree on almost every point (the MK had issues years, and years ago but has been a very fine hechsher for a while now).
I don’t know what you mean by “no rosh yeshivas have ever come out of the place.” Many, many very fine bochurim have come out of the Yeshiva and many of them have gone on to be tremendous talmidei chachamim. The Bais Medrash program of the Yeshiva is having problems now but the high school is doing just fine.
The anti-semitism is grossly over-stated. I grew up there and I never felt any “palpable” hatred. The community is actually growing quite nicely (which has led to a housing shortage).
I don’t know your connection to Montreal but it seems like it is really coming through a darkly tinted glass.January 24, 2013 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #925089
Ich bin ein Berliner – you are talking narishkeit and shtussim and lies!!
first of all, the past 2 years NY had worse winters than montreal. Our winter does have hash weather for perhaps 1-2 weeks, then it gets very very bearable. cold but not insane. The past few years we had MAYBE 1 or 2 snowfalls in December. January and February are usually the coldest months, March already is really not so bad either. Our fall and spring can be anything from hot and sunny to wind and rain. summers in montreal are beautiful as it doesn not get so humid as say lakewood or brooklyn. we have had lots of days this past summer where it reached well into the 90’s. so to say winter in mtl lasts for 9 months is a statement made out of insanity, ignorance or both.
secondly, it is a very vibrant, close-nit community that has a very strong european flavor. everyone knows everyone pretty much, and as any other community that has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of course is the achdus and warmth (eg: everyone wishes everyone Good Shabbos). Disadvantage is yes it could be very yentish, everyone talking about evryone.
all in all,imo, it’s a type of kehilla more people would hope to live in than not. (unless you’re a cold, bitter hermit)
3) yes the french cause problems, but tell me pray which city doesn’t have it’s french, shvartzahs, or other goyish troublemakers? Besides it’s NOT palpable. i have never had ONE incident of anti-semitism ever. as long as you are polite and speak in french and show you are nice, you don’t have any problems.
4) “The local hechsherim, are unfortunately sub-par by american standards,” bla bla bla, i don’t know from which garbage dump you picked up those lies…
5) several rabbeim in the yeshiva today are former talmidim of that yeshiva…
talk about ignorance, motzee shem rah, motzee laz, and sheker all in one post! i expect an apology from u, Ich bin ein Berliner…January 24, 2013 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #925090ToiParticipant
berlin- i wont argue about any points you made, im not a fan myself, but this line”…The local hechsherim, are unfortunately sub-par by american standards…”- is a total fallacy.January 24, 2013 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #925091
health-pretty sure its Toronto; i have a sib thereJanuary 25, 2013 3:01 am at 3:01 am #925092
SaysMe -“health-pretty sure its Toronto; i have a sib there”
If you’re talking about the spelling, but I was talking about their pronunciation.January 25, 2013 3:47 am at 3:47 am #925093abcd2Participant
Tzaddiq-While I disagree with the way berliner wrote about montreal,(certainly comments about Yeshivas and Rabbonim) it is known the Quebeckers dislike most outsiders and the term xenophobic is a constant whenever someone describes them.
Your quote speaks volumes “long as you are polite and speak in french and show you are nice you dont have any problems”
Unless there is strong family or business reason I do not know why by choice someone would want to live in a place where the general populace dislikes you.January 25, 2013 4:24 am at 4:24 am #925094
in montreal most people speak english, outside the city its mostly french. we try to be polite as possible to our goyish neighbours (duh, who doesnt) and b”h we live in much peace and tranquility, as in any other city. most negative remarks, or headlines is usually a political affair and not personal issues disrupting our peaceful lives. but where do you get this false notion that ‘the general populace dislikes jews’ is beyond me…?January 25, 2013 4:49 am at 4:49 am #925095
health- common myth supposedly! some do, most don’t. More common for brooklyners to call it torono i’m told!January 25, 2013 9:35 am at 9:35 am #925096
I don’t know much about Montreal, but it seems like a nice town, and obviously if the guy is inquiring, he probably has a reason such as a job offer.
However I think some people who are commenting and live(d) there have become oblivious to the anti-semitism.
We were there for a short visit, and I convinced my husband to drive to the peak of Mont Royal park at night as it was our only opportunity and I wanted to enjoy the view. Not being natives we drove around slowly and apparently ended up on a different side. Still driving in our minivan with NY plates some youths, likely students from a nearby university, recognized our “Jewish” car and started screaming “something” Juife. (I thankfully didn’t get exactly what.)
We have never come across such blatant anti-semitism anywhere else, and had quite a scare. And we have no mezuza on our car…January 25, 2013 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #925097abcd2Participant
Tzaddiq A huge portion of the populace dislikes outsiders especially Jews
mammalee is right that unfortunately many have gotten a bit oblivious
Who voted these people in? The people in Quebec
Instead of writing a whole page anyone in the coffeeroom can just look up Bill 101 on google or how the party tried banning public displays in various settings of religous wear except for the cross and many other instances over the years of overt xenophobia.January 25, 2013 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #925098ToiParticipant
health- common myth supposedly! some do, most don’t. More common for brooklyners to call it torono i’m told!
shtusim. im from toronto, and lived there all my life. any real natives say torono. with no ‘t’. any immigrant yeshivish people generally dont.January 25, 2013 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #925099
The PQ doesn’t get their support from Montreal, they get it from the rest of the province. I wouldn’t recommend living in Quebec City but in Montreal I never experienced any anti-semitism beyond stupid teenagers making “Juife” puns.January 25, 2013 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #925100
sorry mammele for your bad run in with those french racists. however you are pointing out one execeptional instance and generalizing. i have lived here in mtl all my life and NEVER experienced any anti-semitism. i have had antisemetic comments thrown at me twice however, in manhattan, and when i lived in europe for 2 years. i cannot think of any instance of an offensive remark, or confrontation in the streets in mtl. mtl as a city is much different than quebec as a whole, as it is a city that is multi-cultural, and has a wide variety of different ethnic groups, more than almost any city in the world. it is very tolerant, and it is the real french quebecers who are constantly battling and struggling for the province to retain its own identity and original french culture. that is what bill 101 is all about. that despite all the multi-ethnic peoples that moved here, they are fighting to try to maintain the province’s uniqueness and french as the main language.
i have worked with french quebecors and with other goyim (from ontario, ny, and chinese) for many years and found the french quebecers to be the most easiest people to deal with from them all.January 25, 2013 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #925101
benignuman -“but in Montreal I never experienced any anti-semitism beyond stupid teenagers making “Juife” puns.”
Let’s be realistic. The Pepsis were never worse than your typical Schwartza in NY. I just think Americans when they see white Goyim have expectations of them being intelligent. The Pepsis are empty from the top up, hence the nickname, which is a culture shock for Frum Jews.
The real danger in Moreal is that they are like the French in France and have allowed in tons of Muslims, including many “Palestinians”.January 25, 2013 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #925102
Toi -“shtusim. im from toronto, and lived there all my life. any real natives say torono. with no ‘t’. any immigrant yeshivish people generally dont.”
Thanks for confirming my post since I’m not a Canadian.January 25, 2013 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #925103
i guess i stand corrected 🙂 though my sib-in-law is still saying toronto!January 25, 2013 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #925104charliehallParticipant
It has 54 of 125 seats, having won a plurality of votes in last fall’s election.January 25, 2013 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #925105squeakParticipant
french, shvartzahs, or other goyish troublemakers?
Unconscienable that such a sentence was posted. In a thread complaining about racists, you need a mirror.January 27, 2013 8:44 am at 8:44 am #925106
Sorry Tzaddiq but you’re somewhat dillusional to believe that New York ever had a worse winter than Montreal. New York is about 400 miles south of your frozen, forsaken tundra. Montreal is so cold in the winter it has temperatures comparable to Siberia or Alaska. See the data yourself.
I once had the opportunity to drive with Reb Avruhm Niznik once and he said that everyone who came from Mir via Shanghai to Montreal could not wait to get out of there. They left the second they were allowed into the U.S. He said that his visa never worked out.
As far as the MK is concerned I will not get into it, but your community is held hostage by a mediocre hechsher that continues to function without any checks and balances. Just like the defunct Yeshiva. This is what you get when there’s no competition.
Benignuman – Please name me ONE single home grown Rosh Yeshiva or popular Ram that came through the Montreal yeshiva. Name One.January 27, 2013 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #925107Veltz MeshugenerMember
I don’t know if I’ve ever heard a stranger assertion than what Ich Bin Ein Berliner tried above. Is that how one decides whether to move to a city? By the number of ra’mim that IBEB decides are prestigious enough for him? I grew up in a yeshiva that has hundreds of alumni who are ra’mim and roshei yeshiva throughout the world; none of them would go near the place with a ten foot pole. Meanwhile, the people I know from Montreal are wonderful people who have nice things to say about it. Perhaps this thread is a good indication – if you want your children/family to end up reasonable like Benignuman or Tzaddiq, Montreal might be a good place for you. If you want them to be hateful and illogical, move to Berlin, or wherever IBEB is from.January 27, 2013 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #925108
Tzaddiq: I realize that my experience does not make it a “trend” however if you are objective you will admit it was NOT an isolated incident. I found this article from the Montreal Gazette. The comment by Rabbi Steinmetz about shrugging off minor incidents is very similar to what I wrote about becoming oblivious. Although he’s saying Jews in general, I’d postulate that it’s more true in some places than others, and he was discussing Montreal.
Sorry, copy paste did a bad job here. Hope you guys will manage…
The attacks of vandalism this weekend on five Jewish institutions in Montreal are a disgrace. It is outrageousthata communityin this city cannotgo about its normal life without having to be worried thatitmight at any time be the object ofa gratuitous, hateful and violentattack.
Montrealers should notshrug this incident off,however. Itwas a co-ordinated, planned attack. We do notwantto be a place where vandals feel they can attack the institutional existence of fellow citizens with impunity, for somekind oftwisted thrill or political posturing.
In 2007, the Ben Wieder Jewish community centre was firebombed, and a few months earlier, theSkver-ToldosOrthodox Jewish Boys School.Two men were convicted in the attacks ; onewas sentenced to sevenyears in prison,theotherto four. Police found letters in which themen claimed to beacting on behalf of Islamic Jihad.
These convictions are a positivesign in an otherwise bleak picture. But the fact remains that these acts are far toocommon.Itis shamefulthattherearethose who would carry outsuch acts against other Montrealers, people with whom they share not only a civicspace,buta life. What they do not share, tragically, are values of freedom and toleranceand respect.
Read more : http://www.montrealgazette.com/news…”
I realize this article is two years old. But you’re not saying things have gotten better, but that they were always great. Rose colored glasses are not always preferable…January 27, 2013 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #925109
Wow. I didn’t know this. Two years is even more liberal than Europe and the US.January 27, 2013 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #925110
Meshuganer, read my post in context. It was a reply to an earlier post on why someone shouldn’t move to Montreal, citing that the weather and chinuch, and anti semitism there are to be avoided. There’s no hate in the post whatsoever. Perhaps you should speak to a rov or professional help for your own issues. Nothing to be ashamed of.January 27, 2013 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #925111
Health: I also found it odd that the Gazette actually found such a short sentence positive. (Especially in light of a recent verdict in NY, which made me pay closer attention to jail terms given, of course for totally different crimes.)
It’s also weird how they avoided mentioning the nationality of the perps, though it was very obvious for most of them. Perhaps the Gazette was correct in lumping the antisemitism of different groups together because by not punishing anyone for “petty antisemitism” (Quebecois most likely) the message to Muslims was that they need not fear retribution.January 27, 2013 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #925112
I cannot name a Rosh Yeshiva or “popular” Rosh Mesivta who was a product of YGMH. This doesn’t mean they don’t exist but I don’t know who they are. I don’t personally know many people who went the Yeshiva under the age of 40 and it is extremely unlikely to be either of those things at such a young age (unless you married in).
I do know, however, that many of the members of my shiur and the shiurim 2 to 6 years ahead of me were among the best bochurim and later yungerleit in the many world class yeshivas they attended after Montreal. They were among the very best bochurim in South Fallsburg, in Mir Yerushaliyim, in Lakewood etc.
Frankly I have never come across such a high percentage of top learners from one high school, as what I experienced in my years in YGMH. I am certain that within the next 10 years some of them will be well known as Rosh Yeshiva or “popular” and “distinguished” Ramim.January 28, 2013 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #925114
IbiB- it has not produced many rosh yshivas or rammim, perhaps not any. nebach, only ehrliche, temimusdig yidden came out. if that is your measuring stick for a successful yeshiva, you have a terribly warped method and evaluation of yeshivas. i am honestly shocked and taken aback by your ignorant statements..you have only revealed how shallow-minded you are, and how simple ehriche yidden aren’t worth much in your eyes. just pathetic.January 29, 2013 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #925115
Gentlemen, I’m sure the Montreal Yeshiva, suits the local community just fine. My point however is that it’s viewed elsewhere without much prestige. The same goes for other Montreal kehilla, old guard, establishments like MK. While I understand their minds is the best place in the world with the best everything and lacks absolutely nothing. However, for someone who’s not from there, Montreal is a backward Chelm type of community that is a throwback 20 years behind the communities in New York or Lakewood, or Toronto, or Denver or any other thriving Jewish community in North America. The Montreal European flavor as a poster mentioned earlier is like the pre world war II Europe where Jews were second class citizens in a place where the goyinm hated their very existence, you can keep the European flavor. So that is why I was recommending someone who’s not from there, to think very carefully before moving there. Don’t be so shocked and taken aback. Simply open your eyes and look around you. I love my fellow simple yidden. I just don’t think that Montreal, the homophobic racist, freezing, anti semitic, backwards, insular, and above all, mediocre, is a place for someone to move to.January 29, 2013 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #925116Veltz MeshugenerMember
Just when you thought he’d hit rock bottom, someone threw him a shovel.
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