Looking for resources in Oberlander minhag and nusach.

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  • #2488466
    E.K Viens
    Participant

    I live in England now, but the frum side of my family is by Boro Park. They’re from the Viens community and still there, but I’m from the frei side. I’m learning more and increasing my observance; but the cultural part is just as important to me. Any English-language resources about Oberlander minhag or other customs (I can’t read Hebrew fluently yet) would be very appreciated. The only “ungarischkeit” my side retained is the food.

    #2488890
    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    You live in England and voted for Mamdani?

    Did any of the Orthodox communities in NYC actually vote for Mamdani?


    Did you vote illegally or just making up stories?
    Do you think Mamdani has the interests of Jews who can read Hebrew at heart?

    #2489012
    E.K Viens
    Participant

    1. People move. It happens.
    2. Is loshn hara your default response to everything or are you just a bit thick?

    #2489116
    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    So in the last seven weeks, you voted for Mamdani, moved to the UK, and took an interest in Oberlander minhagim? You seem very decisive considering you admittedly are not from a religious background. And your transliteration of “loshn” plus Mamdani support makes me wonder if you’re a Bundist?
    You do know that Yiddish and Hebrew use the same alphabet, right? Even though Yiddishists gotta be unique with the Yiddish, not Hebrew keyboard! This sounds very trollish, and we’ve had a lot these days.
    If you’re sincere, please explain these changes of heart. Oberlanders of old would be Agudists; they thought of themselves as anti-Zionists but no Bundist would. How fast paced is your life?

    #2489192
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    E.K.
    1, Obviously you have no clue about election law, once you move you are not eligible to move.
    2. Your are “frei”, no genuine non frum would even know what that word means, much less the word loshen hora, Try asking the TROLLER Rebbe your questions being you already a member of the kehillah.
    3. Don’t change you username, its easier for the trollers this way

    #2489483
    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    I’d disagree with Common Saychel’s blanket statements. There are plenty of “frei” people who know those terms. My suspicion is when the person admittedly cannot read Hebrew and still knows it. Otherwise, they’re not usually as ignorant as you portray, they’ll be very familiar with frum words to describe those who are ideologically not frum.

    #2489576
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Ian the vanquisher of trolls over here, but I can defend this one

    Has anyone over here heard of absentee voting? A lot of bachurim that are learning in Israel used it to vote for Cuomo, so this guy can use it to vote for Mamdani

    #2489707
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @coffee, that works when someone goes to school out of state or overseas, not when someone moves, anyway I don’t waste time on an obvious troll

    #2489838
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Cs, how do you know why he “lives” in England

    I used to “live” wherever my yeshiva was and decided to vote over there

    #2489968
    WiseSage58
    Participant

    Let us do away with this hateful talk and respond to the initial question. I am also very interested in purchasing a Sefer or similar resource that sets forth the minhagim of Oberlander Yidden. I am descended from Oberlander family and over the years I have forgotten many of the minhagim my grandfather kept. What is the best resource available? Thank you.

    #2490426
    [email protected]
    Participant

    Where in England?

    #2490466
    ujm
    Participant

    Go to any shul in Vien, Nitra, Mattersdorf (Chasam Sofer) or any number of other Oberlander kehilos active and flourishing.

    You’ll find all your answers.

    #2490503
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Why comparing non-Jews going to Ukraine versus Jews going to Uman. There is no comparison. Russia knows that uman is saturated with Jews on rosh hashana Jewish blood in their eyes is cheap. Gentile blood is worth more.

    #2490969
    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    I can’t speak for Nitra or Mattersdorf, but my understanding of Vien, specifically Adas Yereim, is that it’s not the Oberlander Kehilla it once was. Some of my relatives were early members of the Viener Kehillah in New York (1940s, some even before the Shoah ended), at the time Adas Yereim was explicitly intended to be a continuation of Vienna’s Schiffschul. It’s come a long way since then.
    Any comments I make on the Kehillah nowadays are based on my understanding of people affiliated with it, though I don’t have a close relationship to any. More familiar with it as it was 1940s-1970s.
    First, I don’t think they daven Nusach Ashkenaz anymore at Adas Yereim in Williamsburg. My Viener family did. Changing the nusach is generally a microcosm for other changes, primarily based on the community and demographics of its members.
    How common is it for Adas Yereim members to have ancestry primarily from present-day Austria or Slovakia? Especially from Vienna, Pressburg/Bratislava, or any of the Sheva Kehillos? It’s primarily Satmar and other smaller Chassidic groups from Maramures towns at this point.
    Not to denigrate any of them, just pointing out that today’s Viener Kehillah might not be the best resource on Oberlander minhagim. Maybe the others are better. Much like the Yekke community of Washington Heights, a lack of particularity among the frum for marrying within their own group (plus secular not caring either, sometimes not even caring if Jewish), and neighborhood changes affect this.
    How many people are there today who are consciously Oberlander and actively practice Oberlander minhagim as such? I’d guess 10-15,000 worldwide. If anyone has more information I’m happy to learn. Personally I’m not an Oberlander because that family mixed with Galician Chassidim and Volhynian non-Chassidim, hence the dilution. Still curious as well about those who prioritize Oberland.

    #2491012
    ujm
    Participant

    It is true that many from both Oberlanders and Yekkes “assimilated” into both other Litvish/Yeshivish and Chasidish communities. But Vien still davens Nusach Ashkenaz other than in their Williamsburg location (which presumably changed so that they have a strong minyan there.)

    #2491127
    CHOOSID
    Participant

    oberlanders are all becoming chassidim.
    And veen.

    #2491484

    It is sad that we have minhagim of smaller groups gradually disappearing.

    It is often that students follow minhagim of the yeshiva rather than of their parents. So, any group that is not able to build strong educational system is in danger. With so much info available in our times, it should not be hard for the schools to take note of differernt minhagim and help students follow those, at the same time teaching the majority to see and respect those. Sorry for sounding woke…

    #2491515
    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    Where does Adas Yereim have Kehillos other than Williamsburg? I know they have a school in Boro Park but isn’t specifically for Vieners. Is there another Vien Kehillah in North America, which still davens Ashkenaz and is conscious of themselves as Oberlander?

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