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We’re all familiar with the idea that a suicide (when competent) loses his chelek in Olam HaBah. On the other hand, we’re told certain things for which one is “muvtach lo sheho ben olam HaBah.” Saying Ashrei three times a day is one of those things.
So, if a person who says Ashrei three times a day commits suicide, what is the din? Does he have a chelek in Olam HaBah?
Why are you so into suicide? It’s one of your favorite topics you write of.
2 months ago, 3 months ago, 7 months, over a year ago… it’s a constant theme of yours, even if not statistically the most numerous.
Wolf – You have to loose what you have, you can’t loose what you don’t have.
Wolf – so drop the conversation with shlishi so you can get back on your original topic.
Interesting question – I don’t have an answer – but I’m waiting to hear what others have to say.
I don’t think “saying” it is the same as SAYING it
if someone has complete 100% kavana by Ashrei where he’s actually praising being jewish he won’t want to commit suicide
I second coffee addict. It’s not just about doing it, it’s about doing it right.
By committing suicide the person is giving up on a chance to say Ashrei the next day.
wolfish,
possibly (you can’t rule out that Hashem will protect him)
Of course not. But to be worthy of olam habah, it’s not as simple as saying ashrei 3 times a day.
AND if it was mental illness, then you can’t necessarily blame the person for committing suicide, and I’m sure the person wouldn’t lose out entirely on olam habah.
Is it your contention then that someone who “properly” says Ashrei (however that’s defined) is immune from mental illness resulting in suicide?
I thought we were excluding cases of mental illness.
Is it your contention then that someone who “properly” says Ashrei (however that’s defined) is immune from mental illness resulting in suicide?
Your original premise (correctly) was that one only lose his share in O”H for committing suicide while mentally competent.
Why are you so into suicide?
Because it’s such a lively subject!
This has bothered me in the past. Committing suicide is dependent on mental health, but what about “Hamalbin pnei chaveiro…”
Wolf, did you miss my post? Let me elaborate…
If a person intentionally puts himself in a situation where he wouldn’t be able to say Ashrei 3 times a day would that be a good excuse? (But all other times he said it perfectly) Does he still get in or did he throw away his chance?
Are you then willing to say for certain that anyone who committed suicide did NOT say Ashrei three times a day?
yes I’m saying he didn’t say it with 100% KAVANA
coffee- agree. dont know of big people who do the right thing and have their heads screwed on straight committing suicide.
it says in gemara(since im i girl i dont know which one)that if aperson dies on friday night they go straight to gan eden
so what happens if you commit suicide on friday night
Muvtach Lo shehu Ben O’HABOH’
if memeory serves me correctly I remember ,b esides saying Ashrei, there is another deed a person would have to do as well as ashrei.
I think its learning something specific from a certain Tanai….can someone please refresh?
Wolf,
EXCELLENT, excellent question.
Ultimately, in the time of Moschiach (may he come speedily in our days), every single Jew will have a share in the World to Come.
As we learn in the Ethics of our Fathers,
All Israel has a share in the World to Come, as is stated: “And your people are all righteous; they shall inherit the land forever. They are the shoot of My planting, the work of My hands, in which I take pride.”
(Sanhedrin, 11:1)
Also, you probably know about the suicide of Saul – which was justified, so it depends on the circumstances.
alive and well,
1) I’ve never heard of this gemara (that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist though)
2) dying would probably mean of natural causes (I don’t think if a person went out partying on a Friday night and got drunk and got into a car accident and died that he would go straight to gan eden)
i dont think committing suicide= dying on friday night
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