March 3, 2011 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #754480
As far as doing construction, you’re right. However, when you move under a family with 5-7 kids, you have to expect noise.
Nobody (or at least not I) is invalidating Yogi’s feelings; the question is how to respond.March 3, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #754481
Mother in IsraelMember
We had the same problem as DY. Our neighbors downstairs were constantly complaining about the noise. We had 2 kids then–a baby and a 2-year-old–and we had to make sure they never threw any toys, always took their shoes off in the house, never scraped any chairs, etc. etc. It was not a healthy way to live. At one point, we were out of town for 2 weeks and they came to complain to a different neighbor with whom we were close about how we always make noise. When the neighbor told them we were away, they suddenly lost their tongues. Eventually we moved out to a ground floor apartment where our kid can build with wooden blocks without worrying about them falling down, jump, bounce balls, etc. Some time after we moved out, our former downstairs neighbor (the one who had always complained) met me in the street one day and said that she has to ask for mechila. She claimed that she was suddenly having a lot of tzaros so she made a cheshbon hanefesh to see what she might have done to deserve this, and she came up with the realization that they had been very unreasonable with us. She said that her husband had been working nights and sleeping during the day and that that’s why she was constantly asking us to be quiet. Now that things were going bad for her, she wanted to make sure that we were mochel. It wasn’t easy but I told her that we were.March 3, 2011 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #754482
I love Mod 80s posts.March 3, 2011 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #754483
DY, when we moved in they didn’t have 7 kids. That was a surprise. My next apartment we moved upstairs and our landlords were also holocaust survivors. Our landlady was extremely nervous and paranoid. I wasn’t allowed to go down to the basement after 10pm. Then didn’t say anything to us but I understood that the kids jumping on her head on Shabbos, her only day home to rest (she worked) would make her very nervous. But we had a playroom in the front of the apartment and we taught the kids that when they woke up in the morning they should go into the playroom and that Shabbos afternoon they should also play int he playroom and not make noise in the bedrooms. We were excellent tenants. WE shoveled the steps and the walk. We made sure to put out the garbage and put the cans back and we always made sure that the side door was locked because she was paranoid. However, they did not give enough heat and HE told us to stuff the windows with newspaper. The kids would listen for the radiators to hiss in the evening so they could take a bath. But B”H it forced us to buy our first house.March 3, 2011 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #754484
when we moved in they didn’t have 7 kids.
I don’t understand your point; should they have stopped having kids while you were their tenants? (I’m sure you don’t mean that.)
Your complaint about the construction was valid. The only way I could understand the validity of your other complaint is if after having more children (producing more noise) they didn’t let you out of the lease.
Your conduct regarding the paranoid landlady was quite admirable.March 3, 2011 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #754485
No my point is as they had more kids and they realized they were making more noise they should have made rules for the children because they had tenants downstairs paying them rent for the privilege of living downstairs in peace. Their attitude was “it is my house and my kids can do what they want, that’s why I have my own house and I am not a tenant like you”.
Again the same as Yogi, in our face we don’t care about you except….keep paying us the money.March 3, 2011 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #754486
“I think I might know who you are taling about. Forget the landlord. She won’t do anything. I suggest hiring a L&T lawyer and going about your business in a legal way. Good luck!!”
No you dont know who I am talking about.
Geshmake-wow! thanks for those encouraging words and for also having a little faith in me. You did NOT live where we were nor were you experiancing the craziness we were. You did NOT have a guy almost punch you in the face or call you a stalker because you politely asked him to keep it down. So next time you want to judge me…DONT!
for those of you asking what the complaints were, we almost has a light fixture fall on top of my head, because of her stupid treadmill. When asked not to do it at night time bec we wanted to go to sleep, they did not care. They didnt care that my husband has to get up at very early hour so therefore we had to go to sleep when they did which was at 1AM or sometimes later. Their kid would start bouncing a ball ontop of my head. the dragging of the chairs at 1am totally unacceptable! oh and not to mention the fact that you would hear his computer blasting while he’d be on the phone at the same time and hed be talkign and i heard EVERY WORD at 12 AM! NOT FAIR! so now you tell me, when you ask someone to help keep it down at night, dont you think it should be done?March 4, 2011 12:23 am at 12:23 am #754487
If they made no effort to accommodate, then that’s wrong.March 4, 2011 12:50 am at 12:50 am #754488
And they never did….March 4, 2011 1:00 am at 1:00 am #754489
LOL!!! thats what your whole post is based on? someone had a conversation in their own house at 12 am and you blow a gasket? where else should they talk at 12? what are they supposed to do follow your and you husband schedule? And i may be going out on a limb here but based on you loud words and negative attitude perhaps he called you a stalker because your were stalking them FOR TALKING IN THEIR HOUSE!?!?
unless of course they moved in on top of you,
Who was there first?
if i were him it wouldn’t be “almost” punch in the face.
Daas yachid, in reality the op has really no facts that they weren’t accommodating. in truth i still only see smoke, but no inconsiderate davkah
‘They didnt care that my husband has to get up at very early hour so therefore we had to go to sleep when they did which was at 1AM or sometimes later.’
LOL again, so your saying they should listen to you when you dictate its time for sleep? your landlord was right to say hes not a dorm counselor (as you said above) but you are the dorm counselor?!March 4, 2011 2:52 am at 2:52 am #754490
Daas yachid, in reality the op has really no facts that they weren’t accommodating. in truth i still only see smoke, but no inconsiderate davkah
I was responding to Aries.March 4, 2011 3:06 am at 3:06 am #754491
outsider, while you are right that people should be allowed to do what they want in their own home, they also need to be considerate of their neighbors. i used to live in the apt above yogi (before her and her husband moved in) and my neighbors downstairs never had any complaints. you need to be considerate of your neighbors, so if that means doing laundry a little earlier, or being a little bit more quiet when youre on the phone, then that should be done.
and for the record, i do know that she tried to make peace with the neighbor, and the neighbor didnt give a darn.
p.s. you should come over for ss again- we had a lot of fun!!March 4, 2011 3:13 am at 3:13 am #754492
outsider, you sound like one. There is such a thing called common courtesy. No one said that they were talking normally and Yogi heard them. She said he was talking on the phone over the noise of a blaring computer. Your reading comprehension seems in line with your compassion here.March 4, 2011 3:49 am at 3:49 am #754493
Yogiboobo; My Rav is Bloomberg and he “Paskened” that I should call 311. Seriously. Those people are cruel and cynical at the same time. We once had such neighbors. A family with grown kids, who didn’t dream of knocking it off till 4AM. There was loud music and conversation. With furniture moving till the early morning hours. Naturally, they slept till the late hours of the daytime. One day, my son (whose bedroom was below the racket-producing epicenter.) took a “Boom Box”, mounted it on top of the armoire at 6;30 AM and turned up the volume. After about Five Minutes, they came running, complaining about the “Noise”!March 4, 2011 3:59 am at 3:59 am #754494
anonymrs, for the record just because your downstairs neighbors didnt COMPLAIN doesnt mean it didnt bother them, if lets say friday night you had alot of guests and your meals ended very late and your downstairs neighbor heard all the chairs start to move when they were trying to sleep. perhaps they swallowed the fact that its a basement and thats what supposed to happen. P.s you claim that you know inside details about the situation, its the internet i highly doubt you even ever spoke to the upstairs neighbor ever that you can talk so brazenly about what they did or didnt do. Your only hearing it from the OP’s (possibly tainted) view of the story.
Aries, the OP said talking and DID NOT say loudly. all she said was she heard talking.
YOboogi, one more thing from some of your posts you have written it seems that with an attitude like that it is more than likely it will spill over into other areas of your life. whats going to be when you get into an altercation with an employer? your just going to go on an internet bashing rampage? i cant imagine that that will end happy.
It’s all how you want to read the posts. you can say talking MEANS loud and in considerate or you an say that it a bit over dramatized. but then again what do i know im just an outsiderMarch 4, 2011 4:15 am at 4:15 am #754495
he would mamesh scream and we heard it. Sorry, but you know what outsider, when you try so hard to be nice to someone and then they are disgusting to you in return what else is supposed to be done. I invited them for meals for shabbos and on yuntif and shes like “we dont eat out.” Meanwhile that Shabbos we saw them going out for both meals. So either tell me you dont want to eat by us or say thanks so much! but dont lie to me!
anonymrs and aries-the guy told me that the ppl who lived there before him would have ppl for shabbos all the time like 18 ppl. I said “yeah ive been there and we/they made sure to have consideration for the ppl underneath them.” the previous tenants had no complaints from the ppl above them aside from mold and flooding. thats what the complaints were. NEVER noise! So wait, then I said well you havent had anyone here for a year! thats why you havent hadnt complaints from ppl under you till we came along. All in all, what goes around comes around. And I have spoken to many ppl about this and they all said that they were in the wrong for the way they were acting. Outsider-you would punch a girl???? When I wrote my letter to the guy I said to him “do they teach you in Yeshiva that it’s ok to hit girls and call them a stalker?” Why am I being a stalker? Because I was able to hear everything? That’s not called being a stalker. A stalker is a person who follows another person around. Yes, I did hear many things but to call me a stalker is just plain and simple wrong!
Also the room that they were in was NOT their bedroom, but was on top of ours and we told them countless times that it was and they still didnt care. Again that is wrong. “get ear plugs,” “well too bad,” “how dare you text me to keep it down(when it was after 12 already)” thats called nice????? tell me honestly…is that nice????March 4, 2011 4:37 am at 4:37 am #754496
So let me get this clear, They didnt eat by you on shabbos. and they called you a stalker for sending text messages. and YOU told them they could only talk in their bedroom after a certain hour, and they didnt listen. thats what this whole hype is about?
Gorsh boogi that sound pretty intense.
again all the “ppl” you spoke to are only hearing your (possibly tainted) side of the story.
Listen if you needed a place where you could get proper sympathy from strangers and this is what works for you, fine dont let me ruin it for you. im just trying to shed a bit of light that PERHAPS there are two sides. and remember if in fact you are wrong then what goes around comes around will come right back to you……March 4, 2011 4:45 am at 4:45 am #754497
truth be toldMember
Why do you feel the need to defend yourself and to bash “boogi”? Guilt conscience? (Could be she’s wrong as well, IDK the story, just the way you’re responding)March 4, 2011 4:51 am at 4:51 am #754498
no guilty conscience, im just a born a bred instigator, always taking the other side of the coin.March 4, 2011 6:48 am at 6:48 am #754499
outsider, maybe you can choose another coin to flip. Most of us feel that Yogi has gone through enough, so much so that she felt she was forced to move (to b”h a nice landlord and neighbor) and that is never an easy proposition. So maybe you can show compassion or just drop it while she unpacks and settles in. At the moment she could use some support and not a born and bred instigator rilling her up.March 4, 2011 8:16 am at 8:16 am #754500
what your son did was BRILLIANT!! IN THEIR FACE
What happened after they came downstairs complaining?March 4, 2011 8:23 am at 8:23 am #754501
Yeah sure outsider you’re saying this purely for the good of the other party who were stalked by yogi yeah right I’m sure you’ll come to some warped conclusion that it was really yogi who made the noise and she’s what was it again? Oh yeah tainting her side of the story I think I speak for everyone in saying we can safely disregard everything you say on this threadMarch 4, 2011 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #754503
aries-thanks and i just want to tell you somethign crazy while we are at it(i moved in tuesday and ummm we are all unpacked 🙂 B”H!)March 4, 2011 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #754505
there was no justification whatsoever for yogi turning down their boiler to make them cold. no justification whatsoever. im not sure who needs to ask who mechila. probably both.March 4, 2011 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #754507
shlishi…they werent home the first time and the second time i put it right back up. i didnt turn it off only down to low.March 4, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #754508
It seems to be important that everyone that contributed to this thread keep in mind that there is always another side to the story.
It appears that clearly the downstairs tenant relocated to an apartment that will hopefully provide less conflicts and inconvenience, so for her best of luck in your new home.
As for everyone, keep in mind that the upstairs neighbors may have a totally different idea about what happened and how things really went down.
When the actual nuisance is read with a rational mind, there definitely seems to be a lot of hype thrown in, since the hard facts don’t seem so “obnoxious”. (and for all you know attempts were made to accommodate and not even recognized, appreciated, or indicated above)
IN ANY EVENT…POSTERS…..THERE ARE 2 SIDES TO EVERY STORY….
it can always be helpful for someone to point that out in these kind of threadsMarch 4, 2011 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #754509
shlishi, although nekama is never warranted, sometimes people just need a little taste of their own medicine to come to their senses and realize that Hashem created the world for ALL of us and not just for them. That THEY don’t live in this world alone and they are surrounded by other people who DESERVE and have the same RIGHTS and NEEDS as they do. What Yogi did was NOT nekama it was a simple reminder. It was meant to remind them that now I need YOU to hear me, and YOU in turn NEED me to hear YOU like when YOUR boiler needs adjusting. WE all need each other at one time or another and therefore we should ALL be considerate of one another if not for the sake of plain common decency, then for that reason alone.March 4, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #754510
When we were first married, we lived in an apartment building on a middle floor. We had neighbors, above, below and on 2 sides of us. We had many of the same problems mentioned by various people here. This is not the place for specifics, but when we spoke to a Rav he told us that everyone has a right to love in an apartment “normally”. Walking around your apartment, in a pair of shoes (this was one of the specific issues that came up) on a wooden floor is considered normal. If it bothers the tenant below, let them buy earplugs or move (or learn to live with it). The only obnoxious behavior that anyone really had from any neighbor was from those who smoked and caused a stench in others apartments. The Rav called it “giri dilay” among other things and told him to take his smokes outside where it wouldnt bother anyone.March 4, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #754511
aries, nekama is a very serious halachic matter and transgression. we cant act how we feel, we must only act in accordance with the halacha. i really dont see this type of nekama (turning down the neighbors heat) as halachicly warranted — even if you redefine the nekama as “a taste of their own medicine”.March 4, 2011 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #754512
apushatayid, and he is obviously right, but according to city ordinances it is not normal to do the things that Yogi’s neighbors did. Had she called the cops (which she didn’t) and they heard the computer and the phone conversation from Yogi’s bedroom at 1:00am, or they listened to the floor shaking and the sound of the woman running on the treadmill at 12 midnight from Yogi’s apartment they would definitely have gone upstairs to tell the neighbors to shut down the noise at that hour. Because the cops would have told them it was NOT NORMAL noise for that hour of the night. And although they can run the treadmill at 9:00pm and blast the computer at that time as well, after 10:00pm they can no longer do so.March 4, 2011 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #754513
apushatayid, is running a washing machine a normal behavior?March 4, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #754514
Shlishi, yes at a normal hour. It would not be normal to run it at 3:00 am or even 6:00 am. Let me ask you something. If you lived upstairs and you heard the downstairs baby crying all night and then you hear quiet beginning about 8:00AM. Would you turn on the washer or would you have rachmonus on the mother and the baby?March 4, 2011 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #754515
shlisi-im not saying DONT run your washing machine. I was simply saying NOT at 12AM or 1AM when they know the people underneath them hear it. I offered them many times to come down stairs to hear what it sounds like and you what their response was? “I dont need to come down because I dont care.” When she started playing the piano at 11 at night is THAT normal behavior??? To all of you who dont understand what both me and Aries went thru, I invite you to go sleep in my old apartment and have a listen for yourself. I’ll tell her to do her laundry, run on the treadmill and play piano, and have the computer blast all while you are there. Let me know if you are interested. So before you are really in my place, dont say a word! Good shabbos!March 4, 2011 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #754516
oh and when these things did go on, i did have ear plugs and i did put other things on top of my head like a pillow and blanket to drown out the nopise and guess what it never helped!March 4, 2011 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #754517
blueprints; Since you wanted to hear what happened (In the case of the night owl neighbors.) We told them where to go. Additionally. One Shabbos afternoon, there was a very loud opening and closing of folding beds. (In case anyone is wondering how opening and closing folding beds can make noise. If a bunch of grownups who act like children decide to have fun in this weird way, they close and then let go the folded bed with great impact on top of the downstairs neighbors.) So I removed one ceiling tile and started banging on the original ceiling with a broomstick handle till the war of folding beds stopped.March 5, 2011 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #754518
Are your neighbours reasonable at least metrodriver?
Yogi I’d consider sending a letter bomb with that note about mechila! Oh and you have to tell us when you get a replyMarch 6, 2011 12:16 am at 12:16 am #754520
yogi, if you decide to take blueprints “letter bomb” suggestion, dont forget to ask them mechila for that and for turning their heat down, at the same time. you dont have to wait till erev yom kippur to ask.March 6, 2011 12:59 am at 12:59 am #754521
so far there are a lot of opinions written here, but not so much what does the halacha say in this situation.
here a link of what the halacha says one can and cannot do in their home.March 6, 2011 4:56 am at 4:56 am #754524
blueprints-3 letters: LOL!!!!!
i wouldnt do it. and no I never got a response!March 6, 2011 5:07 am at 5:07 am #754525
yo i wouldn’t hold your breath for a response. clearly not everyone agrees with your point of view and i have no doubt that they for sure dont agree. i wouldn’t be surprised if they took that letter and put it straight into the shredder.
PS and they’re probably LOL’ing about your ludicrous, over dramatization of a little noise.March 6, 2011 5:12 am at 5:12 am #754526
<cough> troll </cough>March 6, 2011 5:16 am at 5:16 am #754527
mw13 hope that cold gets better. if you have something to say be straight about it.March 6, 2011 5:36 am at 5:36 am #754528
i actually really dont give a hoot if they read it or not. i said what i had to say and thats it. its over and done with. im glad you think its was ludicrous and over dramatized but until YOU are put into the situation you dont know!March 6, 2011 5:52 am at 5:52 am #754529
LOL again, do you really think you were the only person in the world that lived underneath someone else? i was in your situation too when i first got married before i lived in my own house and you know what? i dealt with it because i knew that when people live on top of you there is going to be noise. i did not make a whole internet forum to find fault in other people for no reason. Perhaps if one were to look into every little thing that u do you wouldn’t be so happy about it. like maybe the dangers of opening your mouth on facebook? just be careful what YOU do and say bec in reality YOU do not know what it really means to have nasty neighbors.March 6, 2011 6:19 am at 6:19 am #754530
My Observation – The world is made out of nice, sweet people. You just have to know how to bring out their Zeeskite! (if I could..)March 6, 2011 7:06 am at 7:06 am #754531
Yogi, outsider specifically said he came here to instigate why do you even bother to answer him. Let it go, don’t even read what he writes. Most people understood your situation and gave you the chizuk you needed. There is always going to be someone who is going to come on and just be nasty and in your face. It has happened to all of us. Just do your best to ignore him and don’t take the bait. Just because the Mods let him through it does not mean he is right in any way or he deserves a response. It just means he has a right to post an opinion even though he admitted he is just trying to stir things up.March 6, 2011 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #754532
unless of course the OP feel compelled to respond out of guilty conscienceMarch 6, 2011 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #754533
blueprints-3 letters: LOL!!!!!
i wouldnt do it. and no I never got a response!
POSTED 9 HOURS AGO #
Well if you did send the letterbomb you certainly wouldn’t get any responses moowahahahahaMarch 6, 2011 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #754534
truth be toldMember
blueprints and outsider 4321 (either two or one, person):
You are mean people.
I don’t know if yogi is right. Your responses here are wrong. Very wrong. I’m affraid it’s indicative of your lifestyle (the bein odom l’chaveiro one). I hope I’m wrongMarch 6, 2011 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #754535
Did a family recently move out from the apartment beneath yours?
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