Lowering our standards for a good cause.

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  • #1725914

    Haimy
    Participant

    I was driving in Lakewood the other day & a regular frum guy was biking by wearing a tight bodysuit with short pants, on it was printed a logo of a tzedaka cause. I’m wondering if ehrlicher yidden would feel comfortable going out in public this way if not for the momentum generated by the chessed organization for a bike marathon? Should we be lowering our standards of tznius for a good cause? The same for wine tastings, Meat Boards, & other indulgences offered to lure contributors to tzedaka, would you pick yourself up & spend time tasting different wines if not for the fact that it’s “for a good cause”? Does the fact that an tzedaka benefits from the proceeds now make all types of otherwise unbecoming behavior now Kosher Lechatchilah? Does springtime in Lakewood now mean the streets are teeming with frum men in short body suits riding their bikes in anticipation for a marathon. (Nevermind the women who now think the streets were meant for them to engage in intense jogging & body movement.) Let’s not lower our standards even for a good cause.

    #1726081

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Is this any different than people taking money that might be legal , but very sketchy. Like accpeting section 8 money to pay rent to your in-laws , paying wages off the books other other similar things.

    Once people cross the line somewhere, people will see it as almost open season

    #1726017

    jakob
    Participant

    Is there anything wrong with a regular yeshiva person biking to learn instead of driving? Is there something wrong with doing exercise or going to gym to stay in shape ? (As you make it sound like it’s wrong ) if a person lives not far from work is there something wrong with him biking there instead of driving there? Is biking below a man’s dignity after a certain age or an embarrassment? Live within your budget and get what you need NOT WHAT YOU WANT so if you can manage with a bike and don’t need a car for most of your errands and needs then go for it and save on your expenses and think about the future.

    #1726091

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Your Ma Nishtana kashos just gave me an idea. I’m starting a top of the line hechsher org for tzedakah giving and taking.
    As of 10 am this morning, I’m no longer stamm a working zhlubb. I’m prez & CEO of Tzedek Betzinu Tirdof Ltd.with a staff of 200 and growing. Mushuga ,I was ….. packing a tuna sandwich with a Mac apple every morning… Done with it.

    #1726240

    jdb
    Participant

    As I see it, there are three sides to this, and in all situations one’s personal Rav should be consulted:

    1) Lowering an existing standard of hiddur: for example, if you usually hold by a certain standard of kashrus, but are eating at your grandparents home, who hold a lighter standard (that is still a basic level of kosher). In my experience, most rabbanim have advised me that the mitzvos of kibbud and ahavas yisrael outweigh personal considerations (hiddurim).

    2) Changing accepted standards of conduct to a hallachikly questionable mode of conduct for a good cause: Allowing casino nights for a tsedaka organization. I have heard some impressive rabbanim speak at these events, and others that are pashut fire against them. Again, ask your local rav.

    3) Changing a social standard for a personal or social reason: For example, wearing biking clothes when biking, or running outdoors in more “sporty clothing”. Some communities tend to be more stringent, but this is generally perceived as less of a hallachik issue and more of a hashkfik one.

    In all three cases, speak with a Rav. And please, in this time of sefirah, do not speak ill of others who have a psak different than your own.

    #1726404

    There was a literal pikuach nefesh (risk of losing souls) due to assimilation in rural America. If a Jew would not attend shul which was far from his farm, his entire family would become lost from Klal Yisroel. The “former Orthodox buy now COnservative ” rabbinate decided that better to desecrate the shabbos and remain Jewish, than lose all Jewishness – therefore they lowered the “standards” to allow driving to shul on shabbos r”l. They did it for “a good cause”, to save souls, but created a movement which is not Torah Observant. This rabbinate, many of them had smicha from frum yeshivos, used various “heterim”, but we know that it was against normative halacha (even though one can actually be mechalel shabbos to save a person from shmad – that does not apply to Jewery in America driving to shul on shabbos). Standards were lowered, and Conservative Judaism was born.

    #1726836

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Rebbitzen
    WRONG AGAIN

    Conservative Judaism had its birth in Germany and Hungary in the mid 1800s. Research Rabbi Z Frankel and the Jewish Seminary of Breslau. Take off your American self-reference criteria blinders. Both Refirm Judaism and Conservative Judaism had their births in Germany. LONG before people were driving cars to shul on Shabbos in rural America. Long before people were driving cars anywhere,,,,,,,,

    #1726892

    I waa not talking HISTORY or founding if Conservative. My post was the origins of the Conservative “rabbinate” allowance to drive on shabbos. The “hetter” was exclusive to America and originally only for the purpose of driving to shul. The point is how lowering standards detoriate to total neglect of Torah values.

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