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@SyagLchochma I’m going according to my own personal experiences where I know about 10 people who were hospitalized or seriously ill for every one that was niftar. Considering that over 250,000 people in the US died, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that millions of people were hospitalized for COVID-19.
Your new york experiences cannot be used to extrapolate what went on anywhere else in the united states. It was highly unique. And regardless, when you are trying to make a science based point to prove something, it is highly unreasonable to just assume anything based on personal experience. There are records and i don’t believe they show millions were critically ill and hospitalized.
The closer you stay to the truth, the more credibility your point will have. Life lesson.
Of course I’ve heard of tons of people dying which is very Very sad hashem yishmor , but I meant I personally don’t know anyone that died ( which I admit sounds a bit selfish , but I’m honestly not ) although Ik a couple of including close relatives that were really ill and still are . I’m really sorry that you had to have some of your Close piers pass away . Hashem should bless you with many happy healthy years .
Btw New Zealand set up interment camps and are keeping Covid patients in them , and there not the only ones Canada and Australia and Italy built them too , and on the CDC website there already discussing it , they gave it a fancy name so it sounds Professional , it’s called the Shielding approach feel free to research that . All in the name of health , they can do whatever they want as long as they say it’s for the safety of the country and mention corona , people will go right along with it . If that doesn’t scare you I hope it’s cause you trust hashem one hundred percent otherwise you might be a bit oblivious .
@SyagLchochma First off, I don’t live in NY. Second, my experiences about mirror what the CDC says are rates of hospitilizations due to COVID-19. Sure “only” one out of a thousand people who catch it die, but about a hundred times more than that are seriously ill, many of which end up in the hospital. CDC data, and the data from independent tracking sites, shows that there have been several million people admitted to the hospital for COVID-19 since March.
What I don’t understand is that less than a month ago during the Vice President Debate when Harris was asked if she would take the vaccine she said she would require addittional testing. Likewise Governor Cuomo also wouldn’t allow them in New York State uless they were reviewed by a panel of his medical experts. Now becuase Biden won vaccines are Mandatory.
Everyday people are being shot with illegal guns many of whom are dying yet I have never heard of warrentless searchs to confiscate these guns. Mandatory vaccines wouldn’t work. Voluntary compliance is the only way. Media campaigns wouldn’t workto convince the masses, becuase for the last 4 years the media has been bad mouthing Trump and yet he got more votes then his previous election when he won the presidency.
You may say that the antivaxxers can stay in their basement but I have been going to work everyday on the subway, my job requires it. While the subways are not packed thery are more than half full during rush hour. So I see it from a different point of view. Others who drive to work, work from home or live outside NYC may see it differently.@Abba_s What’s not to understand? Harris and Cuomo are politicians and put their politics before the health and wellbeing of their constitutes. They don’t want to acknowledge the vaccine, because it looks good for Trump!
If you won’t get vaccinated by choice, then it is your responsibility to stay away from people until herd immunity kicks in. I’m sorry, but that’s the harsh reality of the situation. Your choice, however informed, if it puts people in danger is something that you have to take into account when you make it. And it remains your responsibility to minimize that danger.
If people wouldn’t even wear masks or maintain social distancing how can you expect they will stay in their basement until herd immunity is achieved. In order to get herd immunity you need 70% of the population to have been vaccinated. This will require the states to administer the vaccines but the funding that the Democrats & Republicans agreed to wouldn’t be enough to fully funded it.
You do realize that no one knows how long the antibodies created by the vaccine will last. You may need to vaccinated every year, so by the time you vaccinated 70% of the population the first ones have to be vaccinated again. Also no one knows what the side effects are going to be.The legal and political question of whether our governments (federal, state, Hashem) can mandate a vaccination is distracting some of us from the important question: should we take a particular vaccine. If and when vaccines are approved by the US Food and Drug Administration, I will check with my own personal physician on whether I should take it. If she tells me it will protect me without posing a genuine threat to my health, I will take it. I suggest you nudniks who think you can figure this out for yourself should talk to your physicians, not your friends, not the pharmacist who davens at your shul, not Sean Hannity, not Schmecky Schmekeknopf the counterman at the bagel shop, not even the doctor you read about on YWN.
I choose #hydroxychloroquine over a fakeccine
Mandatory vaccines wouldn’t work the only way is to encourage people to get vaccinating by paying them money
To Abba S: Member of Congress Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez made your suggestion, and the commenters of YWN called her a Marxist fool.
@huju What if your doctor told you to take the vaccine because it will protect others but not yourself? Would you still take it?
To Yserbius 123: Yes, I ain’t Richard Blaine or Roy Earle. And I think Halachah would require it.
CDC says you still have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated BC they don’t yet fully understand covid. So how can they give a vaccine on an illness they don’t even know about. They also don’t know if it will provide immunity so who exactly is benefiting from getting the vaccine? The big pharma will have the last laugh.
They also don’t know if it will provide immunity
I’m pretty sure you made that up.
What I think what was meant by “will it provide immunity” is how long will the vaccine provide immunity. We know that people who had covid and recovered can catch it a second time as people lose their antibodies over time. Will this be the case also with the vaccine.
Sefer Maccabees reports following tweets on the 8th day of Chanuka:
– how do we know it was real oil and not an illusion, so it does not count
– so many people came to see it, I could not see anything anyway!
– and what are we going to do tomorrow? why didn’t you generate more miracle oil!?
– tzedukim would do the same, and they would not aggravate the yavanim by their “Jews first” racismHave some appreciation for those who worked hard for whole year to get some help to billions of people, even if not everything is known 100%
I seriously doubt that the majority of those vaccinated will social distance and mask up for a few weeks after their final vaccination. So many people really think you get a shot and go back to life as before and two weeks later you get another shot and it’s SOS.
Can we stop wearing a mask in public immediately after taking (both doses of) the vaccine?
ujm: current position is no.
Most of propagation is going through young population, thus it will continue for some time, while, hopefully number of difficult cases will be gradually reducing. Presumably, with lower deaths, youngsters will be even less careful, and thus, move to herd faster.
Re: transition. Recent studies compare locations with and without colleges and see that half of deaths are attributed to presence of colleges by eventually propagating thru the rest of community.
Most direct route – medical students that were, in the studied example, 25% of nursing home staff.AAQ: If you’re already vaccinated I don’t see any reason you’d ever need a mask again, even if only one percent of the population has also vaccinated. Once vaccinated you’re safe from catching or spreading covid.
ujm,
The Vaccines have not been proven to prevent the spread of covid. They have only been proven to prevent infection. It is possible that one can be a carrier and spread the virus even if not infected.
I looked at the CDC website yesterday,all these questions asked here are very easy to be found there. You will be shocked to see their answers, it just gives clarity of how much they believe in this vaccine unicorn. Unfortunately covid restrictions will not go away once the vaccine is administered, it leaves us to ponder why and what is the underlying purpose of this pandemic. Masks will still be enforced as well as self isolating when coming in to contact with other people , we the sheeple will do everything BC it says vnishmartem or may I quote other pesukim Kol areivim…
Meno, come again? Someone who doesn’t have covid (not currently and perhaps not ever) can spread it??
Define “have”
Meno, a person who lived in Antarctica from 2018 until now, with zero contact with any other human, gets vaccinated in Antarctica and returns to the US now for the first time since 2018. He isn’t safe from becoming a carrier and/or spreading the virus? Why on earth would be need to wear a mask?
The vaccine hasn’t been proven to prevent the spread of the virus. It has only been proven to prevent the vaccinated person from becoming ill.
I’m not a doctor, but the way I understand it, a vaccine doesn’t prevent a virus from entering your body, it teaches your body how to fight the virus so that you don’t get sick (and that’s what the current vaccines have been proven to do). That doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t transmit the virus to others.
For the doubters, I think there were 30,000 people injected with the vaccine and 30,000 people with a placebo. After several months, there were very few adverse side effects with the worst ones lasting no more than a month. In the placebo group about 1000 people caught COVID and were tested positive. In the experimental group, only 100 people caught COVID. That’s where the 90% effective number comes from.
The reason they are saying to keep wearing masks, is that you have no way of knowing if you’re one of the 10% that the vaccine didn’t work on and you’ll be accidentally exposing people to the virus if you catch it.
According to Meno, if you are vaccinated and then exposed to the virus, the vaccine won’t prevent you from picking up the virus; it will merely prevent you from feeling sick or showing symptoms of illness. You may still be contagious and capable of infecting others.
If this is true, does anyone else see how the vaccination may worsen the pandemic instead of bettering it?Goldilocks,
I see where you’re going, but it’s not likely. The only reason there is a pandemic is because there is a significant group of people who are at high risk if they get infected. If the vaccine prevents those people from getting sick, then it doesn’t really matter that the virus might be spreading. It would no longer be a crisis. At worst it would just be like the common cold.
Also, even if vaccinated people can spread the virus, they probably spread it less than sick people since they get rid of it more quickly.
Meno and Yseribus: The separate answers you offered in response to my question are giving differing explanations.
Reported Phase 3 trials were over-conservative in their design. Their primary goal was to fly through FDA rigid acceptance rules. The risk of failure was – months to do another trial.
They passed it. Note the French fiasco. I understand that they did not achieve sufficient efficacy and now going into another Phase 3 (= several months).All indications are that it will be soon (1-2 months?) clear what is effect of vaccine on transmission – by analyzing current data, updating trials, observing vaccinated population.
Another guess: possibly, recommended dose is too high (to guarantee passing the test). mRNA teams could do that because there is no risk of getting COVID. Traditional vaccines have to more careful. So, if the doses will be lowered, there will be more of them and less side effects.
A note for those taking it soon: today’s FDA panel discussed that taking more time between two doses gives more final protection, but it is hard to recommend more time as this increases time when a person is protected less by just one dose. So, if you are not an exposed medical worker, but a relatively isolated alter – you may want to ask your doctor about spacing doses a little longer.
ujm,
Well then you have two reasons to keep wearing a mask.
Rav Silberstein paskened lehalacha to vaccinate following the doctors and the leaders.
See https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1931565/hagaon-harav-yitzchak-zilberstein-the-vaccine-has-the-authority-of-beis-din.htmlI do not like what I hear about vaccination priorities in US. There is increasing emphasis on essential workers v. those who are in greater danger. There are even “racial equity” appeals..
As much as even medical workers are an appealing and deserving group, I think they are statistically less in danger (partly because they use protection properly) than old people, especially those in communal settings. It sounds that UK and Israel are doing it somewhat better – medical workers + age groups.Halachik sources (R Feinstein, R Auerbach) seem to allow preferences for those who have higher chance to survide, and if not – first come, first serve and a lottery.
There is also an issue ledarchei shalom. If you start giving priority by vague rules, you will ensure fighting and people going around the rules. If rules are easily verifiable, like age, then it should be easier.
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