masks and antibodies
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- This topic has 39 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by Reb Eliezer.
June 16, 2020 7:01 am at 7:01 am #1872973just meParticipant
I’m tossing this out to all the experts in the Coffee Room (as opposed to asking my doctor): If I have a lot of antibodies, do I still have to wear a mask?June 16, 2020 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1873008
Great idea, why ask your doctor when you can just get answers from the coffee room?!
If you have to do something, that is dependant on your local laws, if scientifically there is any point for doing so, this will take some time to know for sure.June 16, 2020 10:38 am at 10:38 am #1873029ForshayerParticipant
If you took a shower at home, but the sign at the local Mikva says to please take a shower before entering, do you just walk in without showering?June 16, 2020 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1873198Abba_SParticipant
How much is alot. Also your test may have been a false positiveJune 16, 2020 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #1873264HealthParticipant
JUST me -” (as opposed to asking my doctor):”
Good Idea. Your Doc doesn’t know as much as Me.
“If I have a lot of antibodies, do I still have to wear a mask?”
It depends – do you know what type of Antibody you have? Are you going to test yourself everyday to make sure you still have them?
There is more than one type of Covid19 floating Around.
It’s called Mutation. Ask your doc, if he/she Even knows about this!
So the Answer is – if you won’t be exposed to the Mutation, and you check everyday that you still have those antibodies – then you don’t Need a Mask.June 17, 2020 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1873370n0mesorahParticipant
If everyone wears a mask, than everyone will wear a mask. Once some people stop…June 17, 2020 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1873552cent_centParticipant
Not sure about the whole mask thing to begin with but just a word on antibody testing.
Many of the tests (especially the earlier ones) had very high false positive rates. They were in the 5%-10% range. That doesnt sound high but in terms of false positives that can be very significant. Not sure where you live but if you dont live in NYC area, then the percent of population that had Covid is probably about 3% or so. If you assume that, then a test with a 10% false positive rate means that if you come back positive you have less than 25% chance (3/13) of actually having it. So the test is almost meaningless.
Even with a 5% false positive rate, with a 3% population rate you would have 3/8 chance of having it (37.5%) if you came back positive.
If you live in NYC where the population rate is about 25%, then it is much more meaningful even with 5-10% false positives.June 17, 2020 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1873563
In a story about Nancy Pelosi requiring masks in committee meetings:
Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA) is particularly upset by the idea of covering his mouth, telling CNN last month: “It’s part of the dehumanization of the children of G-d. You’re participating in it by wearing a mask.”June 17, 2020 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #1873712Frumshmurda718Participant
If you think mask work, you are very naive. Not even the CDC or anyone in the government by any chance has been seen wearing masks.June 17, 2020 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #1873718
Yehudalah: Higgins is a relatively ignorant former Deputy Sheriff from a state with one of the highest death rates from CV19 who even before the virus, had characterized public health restrictions as an “infringement” on personal liberty. He goes out of his way to blend right wing Christian Evangelical cultural themes with Trumpkopf-style science denial on matters that even most Republicans accept as fact. Wearing a mask doesn’t fully protect others near you from infection (if you are asymptomatic) but it certainly reduces transmission. Likewise, it slightly reduces your own risk of being infected by droplets exhaled from others nearby.June 17, 2020 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1873723
Frumshmurda718, google “Jared Kushner and Adm. Brett Giroir, the federal official overseeing testing, wear masks at the White House during President Trump’s news conference.” Google “Fauci wearing mask.” Google “Redfield wearing mask.” In mid-May, White House staffers were told to wear masks.June 17, 2020 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1873724Frumshmurda718Participant
Only 10k coronavirus deaths at best. Meaning, out of the supposed 110K coronavirus death in America, only ~10k have Coronavirus listed as the only cause of death. Many hospitals are faking coronavirus deaths for money.June 17, 2020 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1873768HistorianParticipant
Even if one thinks he doesn’t “need” to wear one. Out out of respect, one SHOULD wear. This is a classic MARIS AYIN case.June 18, 2020 9:10 am at 9:10 am #1873919Abba_SParticipant
Wearing a mask doesn’t protect the wearer from catching the disease it prevents the wearer from transmitting the disease.June 18, 2020 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1873978
Frumshmurda: You neglected to report that Fox News also showed pictures of Martians landing in Willy and BP were seen wearing masks, so they are taking the viral risks seriously. Geez…..where do you guys dig up this garbage??June 18, 2020 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1873985
GH – I definitely agree with you hereJune 18, 2020 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1873990
Yes, you need to wear a mask. You may be a carrier, even if your antibodies protect you from infection. The mask protects the rest of us from your possibly infected spit, sneezes, and coughs.June 18, 2020 10:21 am at 10:21 am #1873996
huju – I agree that the mask works both ways. I know I read somewhere (don’t know the validity tho) that antibodies start appearing after two weeks. Coupled with the study that people are only contagious for the first 11 days (I think that one was the CDC) it would seem that the presence of antibodies comes when they are no longer shedding the virus.June 18, 2020 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1874007
To add to what Huju said, you spread droplets when you talk or sing. The louder you are, the more droplets you spread, which is why public health experts are concerned about rallies, sports events, and religious services.June 21, 2020 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1874736commonsaychelParticipant
“To add to what Huju said, you spread droplets when you talk or sing. The louder you are, the more droplets you spread”
for the past month there has been loud protests in the New York area with very loud screaming and vast majority no wearing masks and zero social distancing, yet NYS, NJ and CT is showing testing less then 1% positives on all tests for the past two weeks.June 21, 2020 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1874738som1Participant
yehudayona-“To add to what Huju said, you spread droplets when you talk or sing. The louder you are, the more droplets you spread, which is why public health experts are concerned about rallies, sports events, and religious services.”
at protests they are screaming a just as much if not more then sports/rallies/ or religious servicesJune 21, 2020 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #1874789
I’m not sure why CS and som1 are arguing with me. I didn’t say anything controversial. Rallies includes protests. In the pictures I’ve seen, many BLM protesters are wearing masks (as opposed to the Trump rally yesterday). And to pick a nit, although the positive rate in the tri-state area has declined, it’s still greater than 1% according to Johns Hopkins.June 21, 2020 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1874814som1Participant
yehudayanu- most protesters were not wearing masksJune 21, 2020 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1874932
Protesters were wearing masks but not rally people.June 21, 2020 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1874952
After scanning a random set of videos from the protests I’d guess that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the participants on average were wearing masks. Also, they were OUTDOORS and a lot of them were trying to stay at some distance from others. Last night in Tulsa, INDOORS, about 10 percent were wearing masks and sgitting on top of one another (although based on the low turnout they could have left every other seat empty)June 21, 2020 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1874962
“I’d guess that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the participants on average were wearing masks. Also, they were OUTDOORS and a lot of them were trying to stay at some distance from others. ”
Oh righ. I’m calling your bluff.
But thanks for the laugh.June 22, 2020 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1875157👑RebYidd23Participant
Yes, you need a mask. You always needed one, and you always will.June 22, 2020 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1875224
It’s pretty pointless to argue how many BLM protesters were wearing masks or not, but just to clarify my statement that many were, I based this on a google image search of “blm ptotests.”June 22, 2020 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1875226
So it seems that the vast majority of people in NY, especially among the frum orthodox jews are not mask bearers, yet there is no surge of the coronavirus.
That is not to say that masks are not beneficial, and there can be other factors at play here, but it seems that masks are not necessarily the answer to everything.June 23, 2020 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1875546
2scents, my observation has been that there’s much less mask wearing among frum Jews than among non-Jews. Can anyone explain this?June 23, 2020 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #1875745
There is a non-medical reason to wear a mask in certain jurisdictions: It is required by law, no matter your health status.June 23, 2020 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1875797June 24, 2020 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1876182
To add to what huju said: Nobody should try to fine-tune the guidelines that the medical experts recommend. They recommend masks, but did not make distinctions between those who have have antibodies and those who don’t, or those who are too short to spit in the average face, or so tall that their droplets go into the air and never come down. New York, and the Northeast generally, was hit hard and is recovering steadily. Let’s not press our luck. Yes, I would like to go to minyan, but the first mitzvah is to protect life.June 24, 2020 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1876243asimpleyidParticipant
of course wearing a mask is important! its not rocket science. it blocks the particles and prevents you from spreading it, or at the minimum it decreases the chances of a person spreading it significantly. if i remember correctly, israel put out a study that it reduces the spread by a whopping 85%. so please, everyone, wear masksJune 24, 2020 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1876279
Headline and sub-head from the well-known left wing Wall Street Journal:
Early Data Show No Uptick in Covid-19 Transmission From Protests
Public health experts say preliminary test results are encouraging; outdoor locations and masks may have helped
The article is behind a paywall, or else I’d present more here. Of course it’s too early to judge the effects of the indoor, mostly unmasked Trump rallies.June 24, 2020 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1876281
If you are so certain about the science surrounding masks, can you explain as to why the frum areas have a very high proportion of people not wearing masks. Yet, have almost zero new cases for the past few weeks?June 25, 2020 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1876292HealthParticipant
2scents -“Yet, have almost zero new cases for the past few weeks?”
And I thought that you’re a medical professional?
To answer – almost e/o has antibodies.
But the consensus right now is they only last 2-3 months.
We’ll have to see if we’ll have a second wave or not.
I’m going to wear one – when I go out.June 25, 2020 10:02 am at 10:02 am #1876375n0mesorahParticipant
Why are there close to zero new cases? We closed down so much for so long, that when we reopened there where very few active cases. (Let’s guess that we were about the same as March 1st.) Nothing like Purim is happening now. Additionally, BMG and other super spreaders are nowhere near their usual numbers. Schools have been open for about two weeks on average. Many at risk people are still staying home. Some low risk people are distancing and wearing masks. It took three weeks for the numbers to be noticeable. And another three weeks of mounting cases to really make people aware of the magnitude of the pandemic. Six weeks ago was lag baomer. While we are not holding our breath, this is not ‘proof’ to not wear masks. As far as I understood the CDC, masks are not going to solve everything. It will help slow the spread.June 25, 2020 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1876651
Apparently, both infections and hospitalizations have swung to lower age groups. This seems to be due to a reduction in social distancing as the economy opens up. Since younger people have a much lower mortality from COVID, deaths will probably trend lower, at least for now. The big unknown is whether the death rate will rebound as the younger people spread the virus to their elders. I suspect that will depend on how much testing is done and whether those who test positive self-isolate. Given the resistance to past COVID mitigation recommendations, particularly in some of the places that are now hot spots, I’m pessimistic.July 3, 2020 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #1879222
The above question was asked from dodtors who said yes they should wear a mask as we don’t know enough about the immunity one has.
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