Matzav Inbox: What Is Going On With These Weddings?

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  • #2555066
    nevuah
    Participant

    This is why I keep talking about individuality because as much as we like to conform to norms when is there a line in the sand that says “my self respect is more important then fitting in”
    In a socioty that doesn’t respect you for being an individual are they your true friends? I think not. If you cannot be yourself in literally every conversation because it’s always a damn competition. Doesn’t that point to a socioty that is somewhat corrupted by materialism. When I was young it was a select few whod look down their nose at you if you didn’t measure up now it’s a plague and has seeped into every part of our socioty. Where is God in all this. Where is morality.
    Morals dictate honesty with yourself and your circumstances. Taking a good look in the mirror and saying. Look I don’t have therefore I will _have_ to make do. And yet that will make me stronger in the end. Why? Because your not living in delusonal thinking anymore your living in reality.
    How long is socioty going to destroy our humanity? For everyone and forever?
    When nachshon ben aminadav stood in front of the ocean and God said to go into the ocean, the rouring waves seemed impossible and they had an entire army behind them that was about to kill them and yet he took a deep breathe and went into the ocean and the impossiblity of the situation was so strong, yet he went in up to his neck, and suddenly the oeceon split.
    If he had tremendous faith and courage to do what needed to do despite all the _crazy_ odds. (They were crazy odds) So can you.
    When you are ready to step into the ocean of “personal life circumstances of impossiblity” and willing to have the strength to live within your means, and despite the army behind you of people who degrade humiliate and villify you for stupid things, you will suddenly see the ocean split like a miracle and life itself will free you and make a way for you to cross the oceon of impossiblity and you will be free from Egypt of abnormal material control.
    Let yourself be a man of God. not a cowardly man of socioties whims where people lose their souls dignity and morality in the process of fitting in.

    #2556576
    Chaim87
    Participant

    Again this is all very nice mussar but at the end of the day, there are certain things you can’t say no to. You can’t say no to a vort and only have shnaps and cake. We all agree that a balance between conformity and holding back must be struck. Do we disagree that its a balnace or do you think I should revert to shnaps and cake in my house for a vort? Yes or no please.

    If we can agree that the answer above is yes then lets stop hocking about the middle class not spending on that l;ttle extra. Lets acknowledge the issue is that the uber rich needs to stop. And there are 5 other reasons why its the tich fancy ones that needs to be the focus aside for the fact that it puts pressure on us. This is just 1 of the 5.

    #2557078
    nevuah
    Participant

    So then stay stuck and blame everybody else but your own ability to choose.
    If I put you in a place where you can cross the street and instead of crossing the street your looking at the other guy who isn’t crossing the street at the same time blaming him that because he’s not crossing the street you cant cross the street.
    Delusonal much?

    #2557137

    chaim87> You can’t say no to a vort and only have shnaps and cake

    You are right, drastic changes are hard. But we somehow got to the current situation – gradually. So, move gradually in the opposite direction – make each next simcha a little less extravagant, rather than more.

    Of course, Rambam in halachos deos recommends to temporarily go to the opposite middah to train yourself and later return to the “golden middle”, but this is possibly with leadership actions, not by individuals as you rightfully say.

    #2557164
    nevuah
    Participant

    Chaim _you_ choose your life.
    Your letting socioty dictate what you choose.
    I know countless of people that choose to live outside the box and their incredible happy and oh their wedding have much much more joy because it’s authentic. So stay stuck. And miserable. Noone cares at this point

    #2557177
    nevuah
    Participant

    Your standing in a river and you need to grow, that means having faith and jumping into the river. Across the river is your freedom but your so scared of what everybody will think your stuck.
    Stop. Put your faith in God not people. God gives everyone the streinghth to do what needs to be done despite what the naysayers say. Your like frozen in fear.
    Who is your God? People? Socioty? Social norms? These are idols. they are blinding you from reaching out to your Devine creator and relying on Him for your courage and relying on him for your self concept, and self esteem.

    #2557651
    Chaim87
    Participant

    @Always_Ask_Questions,
    move gradually in the opposite direction
    Thats exactly my point. Sure I should move gradualy towards that goal. But thew more the rich move the needle the other way the more that gradual moves becomes harder.

    @nevuah
    G-d doesn’t want to to do whats normal. This isn’t a faith thing. Yes to a certain point society needs to dictate. I disagree with your idea of ignoring whats around you. i don’t think that whats hahsem wants.

    You all miss the point and i feel like I am talking to a wall. We should perhaps have a conversation about mussar and what the middle class can do. But the main conversation is the rich. I don’t go for this answer oh lets work on oursleves and all is fine. Unless the rich stop you’ll never really change much.

    #2557751
    nevuah
    Participant

    Chaim. Honestly I get where you are coming from again, but your digging your own grave and waiting for others to change. That’s never going to happen ever.

    #2557756
    nevuah
    Participant

    Chaim everything is faith based. Lol. It doesn’t matter what your doing you need faith. Especially when your in a situation of extreme conformity and control you need superhuman straighth to _be yourself_ despite the naysayers. That takes tremendous faith. If you want to call it faith in yourself. faith in your conviction. Or just faith in God. You can call it that. But you need faith to do what is right.
    The collective has alot of control.
    Imagine you lived in a collective society of idolitry, like Abraham avinu, and you decided its bs, you think Abraham wasn’t scared when he broke the idols….his father’s anger I’m sure made him afraid but he was driven by conviction and understood what is right. He also stood in opposition to everything those times stood for.
    What about noach who built the tevah for 300 years. He was fighting against a degenerate socioty that laughed at him but he had faith in his conviction and faith in the truth.
    Doing what is right is never going to be easy. Especially when the collective asks us to drive ourselves insane to conform.
    It’s like a very domineering employer who has absolute control….now imagine multitudes and multides of those domineering people. There is fear there. Tremendous fear. But the opposite of fear is faith. That is the anecdote

    #2557757
    nevuah
    Participant

    *Abraham ( spell check)

    #2557862
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    After the Balfour Declaration, in HaTekufah HaGedolah,
    pages 174 to 175, Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk
    (born in 1843 CE & died in 1926 CE) wrote that
    “the fear of The [Three] Oaths has departed.”

    He expressed his approval of Religious Zionism
    in Sare HaMeah, Volume 6, pages 233 to 234.

    #2557863
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Rabbi Chaim Vital says clearly in Shaar Hakdamos
    that The Three Oaths only applied for 1,000 years.

    #2558254

    chaim
    >> move gradually in the opposite direction
    > Thats exactly my point. Sure I should move gradualy towards that goal. But thew more the rich move the needle the other way the more that gradual moves becomes harder.

    another thing – I am trying to attend less-popular and modest simchas and skip the rich ones that everyone attends. This does not require a big public statement and you can talk about with your friends and gradually more people will do the same.

    #2558274
    Chaim87
    Participant

    @nevuah
    I disagree. I think you can get the rich to change. My rav did it. he asked a very wealthy close to billionare in shul to please make his kiddush locally in shul vs at a hall and then asked a few other rich guys to tone their kiddish. all with kindness, not forecfully or demanding just with a request. Since he is a sincere rav that loves every jew and did it kndly they listened. He never made taknos but once the rich guy made a simpler kiddush so did the others. And so if the RY’s would sit down with the rich and encourgae (not force) more toned down weddings with the right love they’d listen.
    Side note, i can easier fargin a anice shabbos 7 brochos at a hotel. Its a more quieter intimate setting and its hard to host at home. If rich guys want to go all out, that can be much more enjoybale than one night and less of a public kind of flaunting. (even that within reason)

    @SQUARE_ROOT
    – wrong thread.

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