Matzav Inbox: When the Farher System Forgets the Boys

Here’s the crux of the problem. Systems are never meant to serve the individual. They are meant to address the needs of the masses. Next, the reputation and image of the yeshiva are paramount. Yes, number 0ne. Nothing is more important. Next, the convenience for the hanhala in doing their work is imperative. Therefore, a talmid that would be the slightest burden on the system, the talmid that might require additional input or extre services, the talmid that doesn’t become advertising for the excellence of the yeshiva are all frowned upon, and not valued. The farher system is not meant to assist a talmid in matching his strengths to the yeshiva where he would be best able to realize his kochos. It is meant to weed out those that do not make the yeshiva more famous, regarded, and easier on the hanhalah. The farher system never forgot the boys. The system never took an interest in the boys.

Let’s face it. Our yeshivos are competing. They need to have the best image, and be considered the caddilac yeshiva compared to others. This brings fame and honor. I would venture to say that the degree to which they push this, to that degree they have subjugated Torah to a lower status. Torah does not require any yeshiva to produce Chasam Sofers or Rashis. Anything that feeds the selectivity towards these unreal goals, and rules that govern to such aims are not Torah. This is NOT chinuch. Our Gedolim have said this repeatedly. And it remains a shanda that this dynamic is live and well, in the halls of most all yeshivos. In fact, it exists in kindergatens and playgroups! Now tell me that this produces Gedolei Yisroel!

tlik> . They need to have the best image, and be considered the caddilac yeshiva compared to others

in cases where your picture reflects the reality – why would you want your kid to go to such place? Because you also want him to be a graduate of a best-image yeshiva? This is no different from “materialistic” parents who prefer Ivy league no matter what. Then, it is your fault. (general “your” – parents who follow this). If you are concerned that your kid’s shidduch resume will be down the pile, find other ways to show his skills – let him get a job, volunteer in kiruv, start a chesed organization, get college credits … and have emunah that there are other parents who value these.

Ahregg the thing about Harvard is elite. That means their a bunch of snobs and everybody that goes there are snobs. Our yeshivos are not supposed to be Harvard.
Lets look at what elitists mentality really is:

“An elitist mentality is widely criticized for fostering arrogance, social division, and a lack of empathy toward those outside the privileged group. By believing they are inherently superior, elitists often engage in condescension and exclusion, which creates hostile environments and marginalizes others. This mindset can also stifle innovation by resisting new ideas that challenge the status quo and lead to groupthink among like-minded individuals.

Furthermore, elitism is associated with immaturity and entitlement, where individuals seek validation through superiority rather than genuine human connection. This attitude can damage personal and professional relationships, as elitists are perceived as insensitive and dismissive of diverse perspectives and struggles. In broader societal contexts, it undermines trust in institutions and leadership, as the focus on maintaining high status often comes at the expense of the common good”

This is biblical?
Is this how our forbears expected us to act. Is this how they acted? I don’t think so

NEVUAH: The original Yeshivos in Europe were elitist.

@nevuah ok. skip the elitist part. Is rockland community good? my point is that this seems like a story of a boy not getting into the number 1 yeshiva on his list. this story happens everyday to lot’s of people. It does not call for a sob story, esspecially the way he delivers it.

Square Root:

You nailed the problem. The climate that was created in which yeshivos are vying for the “cream” and making structures to support their image and name is heavily dependent on the donors. So the decisions that are life/death ones, such as having a yeshiva or not, are in the hands of the donors, not the manhigim of the Torah world. Sadly, we must remember that following the purse strings places Torah value as non-priority. You cannot convince me that this is Ratzon Hashem. As I said in my earlier comment, the system does not forget the boys. It never considered them in the first place.

@square_root I don’t think it’s a donors issue. I personally know many donors who give loads of money to yeshiva’s that are not metzuyonim yeshvas. not everything is an elitist problem. What might be an issue is that yeshiva’s are looking for good boys and may reject the lesser good boys, although those boys could gain a lot from the yeshiva, and they do that because as long as the bocher is not in yeshiva yet, they keep the yeshiva as the priority.

asher> and they do that because as long as the bocher is not in yeshiva yet, they keep the yeshiva as the priority.

as I said before, one issue may be collusion, if it is happening.

I don’t know how well the selection process is, I am hearing kind of random “boys” “girls” encounter in shidduchim – a lot of them have great yeshivos on their resumes, but then turn out very unmotivated and spending time in “learning” because that is what parents or community expects of them. Do some get ahead of those who really want to learn?

It also could be that Hashem is looking out for these guys – He often gives people what they need, not what they want … Maybe these guys are getting a message that they should go get an erliche job, maybe after college, and continue learning – B’H, there are plenty of Talmidei Chachomim who will be happy to learn with an enthusiastic young man. Just daven that your chevrusa will also not be accepted and you can continue learning together!