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“Maybe some people get drunk to the point that they don’t even know the difference between a midah and an aveirah. 😛 “
*mitzvah
Freilechen Shushan Purim. 😉 I drank only soda.
“Lula D’mistifina that it was Apikorsus, I would say a Davar Pashut that the reason the Chachamim over the centuries have not been Moche on drinking on Purim is a similar Cheshbon that the Catholic Church made with Carnival. I can’t say it, because I think that is K’firah, but when that’s what Purim becomes you’ve lost a Yom Tov and created a neo-Pagan holiday.”
???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????
????? ????? ????? ?????? ??”? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???
(Rema in Machir Yayin)
PAA: Is that backing me up and him thinking that Chazal gave people an “out” to do Aveiros and not be Chayav for them? Is that what you’re saying Pshat is?
Some people do this mitva the whole year.
Keitzad?
We drink a lot the whole year so that we can be mekayeim yoseir m’hergeilo in the best manner!
Well I don’t have such bekius in the Catholic Church and the 30 seconds of research I did didn’t really turn up anything, so I wasn’t quite sure what the “Cheshbon that the Catholic Church made with Carnival” so I assumed that it was something similar to this pshat of the Rema. I think what the Rema is saying is that there was a legitimate mitzvah to drink a little bit which might lead to aveiros that you are responsible for so Chazal decided that it would be better for people to be in such a drunken stupor that they would be completely unresponsible for their actions (though I don’t quite understand why deliberately getting drunk would be a ptur for your subsequent actions). Bear in mind that this is the third of three pshatim that he gives in explaining the ma’amar of “Chayev inish…” (although it is the only one about which he says ???? ?? ???? ????). So in summation, since I’m still not quite sure what you were suggesting, the best I can say at this point is ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????.
edited
“We drink a lot the whole year so that we can be mekayeim yoseir m’hergeilo in the best manner!”
the lashon of the Rema (quoting the Kol Bo) is ????? ???? ???????. I once heard someone (I think it was a Rebbe but I could be misremembering and it was actually me) say that it means that the amount you drink is dependent on the amount that you learn. In fact it would be interesting if in every yeshiva the mashgiach would go around on Purim telling people that they don’t learn enough to be drinking this much (or vice versa) unless the mashgiach himself is too drunk to do so.
“edited”
I don’t think Sam would have minded my joke.
???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????
????? ????? ????? ?????? ??”? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???
(Rema in Machir Yayin)
Is there any chance this is “Purim Torah”?
PAA, yes, I had heard that pshat before. That is the reason I am makpid to not learn the whole year to make sure I’ll be yotzei
Some people do this mitva the whole year.
Keitzad?
They learn a lot the whole year so that they can be mekayeim yoseir m’limudom in the best manner!
“Is there any chance this is “Purim Torah”?”
Read the hakdama
A comparative study of Popa and DaasYochid:
They both get equally wasted on Purim but Popa is choshesh that even that amount of wastedness is not enough, so he abstains from learning from Purim until Shavuos, whereas DaasYochid is choshesh that that amount of wastedness is too much so he stays up all night learning from Purim until Shavuos in order to justify it. And they both fall asleep during the early Shacharis on Shavuos morning.
It could only be PAA who will Bump™ a Purim thread during the 3 weeks!
SiDi™
I never bump threads. If I happen upon an old thread and I see that I have something to add then I post it. In this case Sam2 had left off with a pshat that he was afraid to say because it might be kefira so I pointed out that the Rema says a pshat which might be similar.
No problem! I just thought a during the three weeks there would be a Purim thread active.
Enjoy the conversation!
SiDi™
PAA: The Church made the Cheshbon that people cannot be good and righteous all year round, so Carnival is an “out” where you can do anything wrong and it is forgiven.
“PAA: The Church made the Cheshbon that people cannot be good and righteous all year round, so Carnival is an “out” where you can do anything wrong and it is forgiven.”
Sounds like a good sevara. My expert opinion is that it is similar to the Rema but not quite the same. Chazal weren’t saying that guys need a “day off” so let’s let them have a “day off” on Purim (although I have heard some contemporary people [Rabbis maybe] conceptualize Purim as such). What Chazal were saying (this is all according to the Rema’s pshat) is that since they will be doing aveiros anyway, we may as well have them doing the aveiros in a “muttar fashion”. Think of it as kind of like Yefas Toar. In conclusion you are still a kofer (let’s see if this can get past the moderators this time).
OK, as long as we know it’s just a joke.
C’mon mods, it is far more likely that I call PAA a Kofer and believe it than vice versa. 🙂
If it makes you happy, you’re both kofrim.
“C’mon mods, it is far more likely that I call PAA a Kofer and believe it than vice versa.”
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/shmuly-yanklowitz-novominsker-and-oo-theology
Just for the record I didn’t call Sam a kofer. He called himself a kofer and I was just upholding his psak on himself.
“If it makes you happy, you’re both kofrim”
If Sam’s views make him a kofer then I most certainly am a kofer, but it’s nice to have company. (Maybe we can start a subdivision of the Coffee Room called the Kofer Klub.)
🙂
OK I don’t know how much you drank over Purim but I would think you should be sober by now
I feel bad reviving a Three Weeks thread right before Purim, but then again no one felt bad reviving a Purim thread right before the Three Weeks. L’Chaim!
There’s a difference between getting drunk & getting blitzed and I think when it comes to Purim the line between the two is greatly blurred. You should get drunk ENOUGH to fulfill the mitzvah, but not drunk to the point where you’re throwing up all over yourself & can’t tell the difference between your wife & her sister.
FFBBT613 that’s the reason it’s call fire water
Which one is haman and which one is mordechai? I don’t know if the word blitzed exists I’m halachic terminology, but the mitzvah actually is to get as drunk as possible. I don’t know where all of these people are pulling these gedarim from.
YYBC same here
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