August 10, 2012 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #890635Sam2Participant
Der Rav: That wasn’t the Kiddush Hashem. I don’t think it’s a Chillul Hashem as she’s a Tinokes Shenishba, but yes, there were several Issurim involved in being a gymnast. However, that does not negate the Kiddush Hashem of what she did afterwards.August 10, 2012 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #890636popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Feif: You’ve convinced me, I agree.
(Still withholding the respect for the medal though.)August 10, 2012 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #890637Feif UnParticipant
Kozov: When R’ Levi Yitzchak found a drunkard on the night of Pesach and asked him for some chometz, did he make a big deal about the fact that the guy was drunk? Not at all! He only referred to the fact that even drunkards knew you can’t have chometz on Pesach!August 10, 2012 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #890638Feif UnParticipant
PBA: I think that’s a first for the Coffee Room – someone convinced someone else of something! I think we should throw a kiddush!
As for the medal, you don’t have to respect it. I don’t. I respect her for her willingness to stand up for what is right and show she’s proud to be a Jew, even when others refuse to honor Jews.August 10, 2012 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #890639shlishiMember
Feif: Rav Levi Yitzchok did not make a public announcement calling being drunk on Pesach night a “Kiddush Hashem”. He made clear it was wrong being drunk by indicating even someone who wrongly is drunk isn’t totally bad…
Here people are calling this woman’s public sinning a so-called “Kiddush Hashem”. That kind of falsity must be countered.August 10, 2012 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #890640KozovMember
What shlishi said in the first sentence.
Feif un you have a point but I think holding people to standards you dont hold by is a double standard and using it in this argument after the fact, in my opinion possibly demonstrates a notion of being moreh heter liatzmo (self entitlement), though I totally agree its applicable where its applicable. In other contexts its perfectly fine even if youre not holding there. I hope I’m wrong.
While were on the subject I should mention even deeper levels of ahavas yisroel or acceptance or whatever you want to call it. For example there is a profound pirush on ma dialach sani lichavrach lo saavid which says that adam karov eitzel atzmo and al kol pshoim tichase ahava. If you use the correct cheshbon (specified there) of how reiacha is komocha you can even project this self love and al kol pshoim tichase ahava (ironically not approriate for yourseld in certain aspects) on your fellow and literally be less emotianally by it (but not oblivious). Theb Hashem will reciprocate mida kneged mida as the posuk says lo hibit aven biyaakov. This can be viewed as complimentary or deeper than the other cheshbonos, whatever. See here baarucha:
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