Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Mechitza at Har Sinai?
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May 26, 2014 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #612887Yashi and PemberMember
Was there a mechitza at Har Sinai?
May 27, 2014 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1017847PulsingFlowerMemberNo.The women were not at har sinai because they are not Jewish.
May 27, 2014 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1017848sm29Participantlol everyone was there
May 27, 2014 10:46 am at 10:46 am #1017849charliehallParticipantThere wasn’t even a mechitzah in the Mishkan, or the First Temple, nor the Second Temple until late in its history and even then only for the festival of Sukkot (and it wasn’t a mechitzah, it was a balcony).
May 27, 2014 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1017850rationalfrummieMemberThey were on such a high level there was probably no chashash of kalus Rosh, so they didn’t need a mechitzah.
May 27, 2014 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1017851PulsingFlowerMemberRF-That is what Rav Avigdor Miller says about the tu b’av and the women dancing. The men only watched with the purest intents to see which woman would help them serve hashem the best.
I’m not sure I buy it.
May 28, 2014 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1017854rationalfrummieMemberbaruch shekeivanti. I understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.
May 28, 2014 3:20 am at 3:20 am #1017855PulsingFlowerMemberI understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.
I appreciate the empathy, instead of saying like everybody else here would “You are crum. You have no emunas chachomim. You’re an apikores” and such.
May 28, 2014 3:22 am at 3:22 am #1017856AZOI.ISParticipantThere might not have been a Mechitzah at Har Sinai but there were definitely Shtreimlach and Spudiks. I saw pictures.
May 28, 2014 3:25 am at 3:25 am #1017857Sam2ParticipantRF: Actually, it’s entirely untenable. We have so many Takanos and Dinim D’rabannan to avoid even a smidge of Pritzus because people are so easily Nichshal. How is it Shayach to say they were also M’taken something on the assumption that everyone were Tzadikim Gemurim.
May 28, 2014 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1017858Little FroggieMember‘scuse my flower. If Rabbi Miller ??”? said it, I’m not sure you’re the one to argue.
And RationalFrummie, (VERY RATIONAL), not that you need my humble input, to me it sounds like the correct answer.
The Gemarrah, in a lot of places alludes to the fact that at Matan Torah there was ???? ????? ??? ?????, complete purity of the mind and thoughts. So at that conjuncture there was no need for such to be instituted.
Not so when ANSHEI K’NESES HAGEDOLAH felt the need to institute it – and backed their innovation by pesukim. So no, there’s no reason to mock our tradition of mechitzos nowadays. No – society has not improved since.
May 28, 2014 4:37 am at 4:37 am #1017860MachaaMakerMemberNo the women weren’t invited. Kvodeh bas malkeh pnima
May 28, 2014 8:47 am at 8:47 am #1017861HaLeiViParticipantWhy do you assume they stood close enough to need one?
May 28, 2014 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1017862Avram in MDParticipantI agree with HaLeiVi. Rashi’s comment in parshas Yisro, ko somar l’veis Yaakov (i.e., speak gently to the women) v’sageid livnei Yisroel (i.e., harsh – punishments and details to the men) would seem to make sense if the women and men were standing separately at the mountain, out of earshot.
May 28, 2014 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #1017863apushatayidParticipantWhy didnt anyone ask if the yidden left mitzrayim men in front women in the back or if there was a mechitza on the bus. Why didnt anyone ask if there were separate entrances to the yam suf? Why is this suddenly a question at this point in time?
May 28, 2014 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1017864To be or not to beMemberthere were separate buses everyone knows that
May 28, 2014 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1017865HaLeiViParticipantAt least by the Shira we know they were separate.
May 28, 2014 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #1017866Yashi and PemberMemberWhy are you getting all worked up about it?
May 28, 2014 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1017867☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWhy are you getting worked up about their getting worked up about it?
May 29, 2014 1:07 am at 1:07 am #1017868LogicianParticipantSam2 – we know that in mitzrayim there was only one story of znus…
May 29, 2014 3:12 am at 3:12 am #1017869Yashi and PemberMemberWhen did I get worked up?
May 29, 2014 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1017870Sam2ParticipantLogician: It’s a long way from Mitrayim to late Bayis Sheni. Also, there’s only one case of a Jewish woman being M’zanah with a Mitri. We have no idea how many Jewish men were M’zaneh with Mitzriyos.
May 29, 2014 10:49 am at 10:49 am #1017871nishtdayngesheftParticipant??”?: ???? ?????. ?????? ????
{??}??????????? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ??????? ???????????????? ?????????????
May 29, 2014 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1017872Sam2ParticipantNisht: … That’s not what it means. And you probably know that.
May 29, 2014 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1017873nishtdayngesheftParticipantI know what it means, however it clearly indicates that they had to attain a specific level of kedusha. Once they were at such a level and specifically relating to such matters, it was likely almost a moot issue. VDAL
May 29, 2014 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #1017874HaLeiViParticipantSam, Logician is quoting Chazal. Medrash Rabbah, Emor 35:
?? ???? ???, ??? ?? ????: ????? ?’ ????? ????? ????? ??????:
??? ??? ?? ???,
??? ?????,
??? ???? ???? ???,
??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????.
?? ??? ?? ???, ????? ?????? ?????, ????? ?????? ?????.
?? ??? ????? ?????? ????, ??? ?????? ???????, ??? ????? ?????, ??? ??????? ????????.
?? ??? ?? ?????, ???? ???? (?????? ??): ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????. ???? (???? ?): ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????.
????? (?????? ??): ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????.
??? ???? ???? ???, ????? (???? ??): ??? ?? ????? ???. ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????.
??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ??, ??? ???? ?????? ?????, ?????: (????? ??): ??? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??.
May 29, 2014 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1017876Sam2Participantnisht: It says nothing about a level of Kedushah. It’s that we (the women) had to be Tahor in order to receive the Torah and if they were with their husbands they could have become Tamei up to 3 days later.
May 29, 2014 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1017877LogicianParticipantSorry Sam, somehow thought you were referencing Matan Torah.
I thought you were going to say that, so was going to look up the quote as I remembered it… but Haleivi did it for me (thanks).
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