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Why is there so much effort to get people to commemorate Yom HaZikarom, but not Memorial Day? The brave soldiers of the US Army put their lives on the line to keep us safe and free – let’s take a moment to remember those of them who have made the ultimate sacrifice.
Memorial Day should be celebrated as a matter of patriotism. Yom Hazikoron should not, as it represents a state created in defiance of the Torah and Halacha.
“Why is there so much effort to get people to commemorate Yom HaZikarom, but not Memorial Day? “
Easy! It is appropriate to mourn your Brothers and cousins more than strangers. That is not to say one shouldnt commemorate/mourn the death strangers who have made the ultimate sacrifice . But between the two it is normal and apropriate to mourn your (Not yours Joseph) brothers and cousins first
“Why is there so much effort to get people to commemorate Yom HaZikarom, but not Memorial Day?”
This morning the rabbi recited a Kel Mele for American soldiers who have died in service to the US.
To answer the questions, because the two countries treat the day differently. In America, it’s a vacation day where, maybe, you read an article about a veteran in the newspaper/online or give a small donation to the VA/other veteran services.
In Israel, it’s kinda a huge deal so the people make it a huge deal.
In Israel most people know someone who was either killed or maimed in a war.
Not so much in the USA. How many people do you know who even fought in the US Military (Unless they were from the WW II generation )
Rav Avigdor Miller zt”l held that Jews must behave patriotically and even display an American flag outside their homes on July 4. I’m guessing that he would have held to show respect to U.S. veterans of previous wars. Without their sacrifice, we might be speaking German (if we’d be alive…)
Israeli Yom Hazikaron: yup, that day when the state honors its dead with gentile ceremonies such as blowing sirens, laying wreaths, placing Israeli flags on the graves of the fallen soldiers. Oh yeah, let’s not forget saying Kaddish on an arbitrary day, not the yahrzeit of the fallen soldier. Maybe it doesn’t hurt the neshama of the niftar (saying Kaddish on the wrong day) but it sure doesn’t help. Saying Tehillim le’iluy nishmasam probably doesn’t hurt, even if it’s not the yahrzeit.
Bottom line: Memorial Day in the U.S. doesn’t conflict with any halachos or Jewish practices. It’s made up by the gentiles, and Jews can and should show respect. Israeli Yom Hazikaron, however, contravenes Jewish practices, so why follow the dictates of a bunch of atheists who decided to create a mass-yahrzeit day? (Same question applies to 5 Iyar too, not just 4 Iyar.) The authentic Jewish way of memorializing neshamos is a benefit to the fallen. The idiotic gentile ceremonies that are conducted here are of no benefit to them. Maybe even causes them distress.
Because almost nobody says that Memorial Day shouldn’t be celebrated.
“How many people do you know who even fought in the US Military “
My father of blessed memory served in the Air Force during the Korean War.
“How many people do you know who even fought in the US Military “
In my community there is a retired frum NY Supreme Court judge who served in the Air Force during the Vietnam War.
Maybe it doesn’t hurt the neshama of the niftar (saying Kaddish on the wrong day) but it sure doesn’t help.
Why wouldn’t it help?
If someone doesn’t know his parents’ yahrtzeit, he says Kaddish on a random day (usually a taanis). Wouldn’t you agree that it helps?
daasyochid: “If someone doesn’t know his parents’ yahrtzeit, he says Kaddish on a random day . Wouldn’t you agree that it helps? “
We are not talking about soldiers whose yahrzeit is unknown. On Yom Hazikaron, Kaddish is recited (and not at every ceremony; (there are several throughout the country) for ALL the fallen. This is the “official” policy of the state, which has no basis in halacha or minhag.
The Jewish way of memorializing is a much greater honor to the dead than the “official” Israeli way, which simply imitates gentile customs.
But why do you assume that thousands of people saying ??? ???? ??? ???? would be a z’chus for them?
First you complained about gentile ceremonies, but then you complained about Kaddish, which is far from a gentle ceremony.
While the American Memorial Day was originally honoring only soldiers who died fighting for the United States in the Civil War (important, but we didn’t have a horse in that race), it was expanded to cover additional wars. In more recent wars (World War II, against the Nazis), the Cold War (against the Communists), and the current “War on Terror” (against the Muslims), the Americans were fighting our enemies, and an American defeat would have been very bad for the Jews. While strictly Orthodox Jews are largely excluded (de facto) from serving in the American military (at least in uniform, plenty of frum Jews serve as civilian employees), we have reason to honor those who have died fighting for the United States, since in many ways we are the chief beneficiaries since more than most Americans, we would have fare poorly in a world dominated by the the likes of Hitler, Stalin or Bin Laden.
If you are a zionist, one certainly should honor fallen Israeli soldiers. If you are not a zionist, it is best to keep quiet since it goes without saying that if the zionism is a mistake, those soldiers died fighting for a big lie, but it is rude to remind the families of those who died of that.
In the UK, the day to commemorate those who fell in the line of duty to their country is 11th November. Many wear poppies during the week or so before which is the traditional way of commemoration.
Broken record time:
As a small town resident Jewish American, Memorial Day is a big thing.
Most homes in our town are flying flags. The Town replaced the flags on the utility poles on the Main Street parade route this year, selling them to individuals in memory of loved ones lost in service to the USA. I bought 4.
I started my day at minyan and there was a special Kaddish for lost Jewish American soldiers. I had a great uncle killed while serving in the US Army in France in 1918, an uncle killed in Korea and two cousins in Viet Nam.
After shul I went back to the hospital to visit my wife. At noon there were ceremonies at the town veterans’ memorial park. Then at 2PM there was a parade (delayed because of morning rain). Jewish children marched with synagogue youth groups. There was a convertible with members of the Jewish War Veterans (WWII, Korea and Viet Nam).
It is only after these commemorations of the sacrifice made by service personnel for our liberty that family celebrations began. No one rushed off to the mall in the morning, they would risk scorn and shame by their neighbors.
“But why do you assume that thousands of people saying ??? ???? ??? ???? would be a z’chus for them?”
Saying ?? ???? ??? ???? is a marvelous endeavor. But, the Jewish custom is to say ???? ???? on the yahrzeit. Deviating from that custom because some atheists decided so is not a very good justification. Kaddish on the yahrzeit elevates the neshama of the niftar; Kaddish not on the yahrzeit, even if doesn’t harm the neshama, doesn’t elevate the neshama.
Regarding gentile customs: they do several different things on this day. Sirens, wreaths and flags are a gentile custom. As a sop to the religious and traditional citizens, at some of the ceremonies, an IDF chazzan recites kaddish and (sometimes) Kel Moleh. So even the Jewish customs are changed to one unified, national day of remembrance instead of saying Kaddish on the day the particular soldier was niftar. Is it better than nothing? I cannot say, but the flavor of the whole ritual is goyishe.
Akuperma, Orthodox. Jews are not exempt, defacto or otherwise.my father in law, as well as many other frum Jews, were drafted and served in Ww2.
AY: Relatives and such will say Kaddish on the Yahrtzeit, as is customary. This Kaddish is a national Kaddish for everyone?
Why do you assume that the Zechus is any different on a Yahrtzeit than any other day, by the way?
Sam2: Where do we find such a concept as a “national Kaddish?” And one cannot be certain that the relatives will say it on the yahrzeit — because after all, the atheist “sages” of the state of Israel have “paskened” that Kaddish is to be recited on 4 Iyar.
As to why I assume that the Zechus is any different on a Yahrtzeit than any other day. I assume the Chachmei HaTorah who established these minhagim had good reasons for doing so. If they determined that Kaddish Yasom should be said on the yahrzeit of the niftar, then that’s the time that Kaddish will have an iluy le’nishmasam, not any old Monteg or Donnershteg. I did point out that I have no proof that it harms or distresses the neshama of the niftar, but it surely cannot have the especial segula that it has on the yahrzeit.
Memorial is the unofficial 1st day of summer. It is a weekend of sales at the mall and bbqs at the beach and of course hot dog eating contests not to mention a long weekend off from work. How hard do you have to work to get someone to commemorate such a weekend?
AY
i’m sorry you are hocking ah kup. there are many who say Kaddish on asarah b’teves for family members who were killed in the holocaust when they dont know the date. Many who dont know a yahrtzeit of their family members have a day observed by the town. this is especially true this time of year, go to BOro PArk where many Hungarians who had family killed Shavuos time 1944 live. They say Kaddish on a random day this time of year.
Kaddish has nothing to do with the dead per se, study the words it is a glorification of the Ribbono shel olam and serves as a zechus on any day. Look hate the tzionim as much as you want but to denigrate BOTH “gentile customs” and l’heavdil saying Kaddish doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
There are many times that deceased are remembered even not on their day of yahrtzeit. Have you really never seen a siyum made liluey nishmas somebody where a child of the deceased is asked to say the kaddish? Are you not aware that at a hakomas hamatzeiva kaddish is usually said?
El malei is often not said on a yahrtzeit, yizkor is said not on a yahrtzeit. You simply are criticising for critiscm’s sake.
As an aside, I disagree that sirens are goyish. It evokes a sense of contemplation or even awe. The equivelent of the Shofar mentioned by Amos 3:6. wreaths may be a a goyish custum. But as for flags well pay attention to laining next week (this week if you live in Eretz Yisroel).
At any rate even if these are goyish and I believe reasonable people can disagree. Critscing kaddish and kel molei is foolishness
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