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In Mishpacha this week, there was a suggestion that men go to nursing school, since there are a lot of such jobs and they pay well and training is shorter than in other fields.
Do you think this idea will catch on in our community?
My brother in law is a nurse. I also know of two other male nurses.
The Wolf
I don’t feel this is a good idea. There is a cap on how much a nurse makes. In the NY vicinity it is extremely difficult to get a hospital job which has the best pay and the best benefits. Only if a man wants to continue on to be a Nurse Practioner which is similar to a Physicians Assistant should he even consider entering the field. It is not shayach to make a good parnasah without help from his wife.
I also saw in that article about people who need jobs turning down security guard positions. I think this is a terrible trend. The Mesilas Yesharim writes at the end of the midah of nekiyus that one negative midah that we all have to work on is desire for kavod/honor. He explains that one way it manifests itself is people turning down jobs because it is “beneath them.” Iy”H our society will heed the holy words of the Ramchal and not let kavod stand in the way of parnassah.
No.
BS”D
I hope so. I know of at least 2 men who are doing this. There is a tremendous shortage of nurses in the US and it will only get worse – because nurses are less expensive than doctors they do more and more under managed care. Male nurses from the community would also make it easier for frum choilim L”A or even frum patients who go for a medical exam.
why wouldn’t it catch on? i’m in nursing school now, and there are frum men in my classes. the numbers of men is no where near the number of frum girls, but that could change over the next year or two
Popa thinks we have a real problem.
The cost of supporting a frum family is higher than most good paying jobs can support. 80k does not cut it, and there is not a lot of room for advancement in nursing.
Popa thinks that is why men are pushed into pursuing high paying jobs at greater risk, and won’t take lower paying jobs even if there is nothing else available, since those jobs will not suffice.
I read the article in Mishpach. They are surprised litvish men didn’t take jobs with TSA for $24 an hour. I know why- it won’t pay the bills.
Aside: They write that 90% of Harvard law graduates aren’t getting jobs. I hope that was a typo, since it undercuts their credibility. Harvard law graduates are doing just fine.
there are many men that i know are going into nursing. i think the idea has already “caught”. whether a person can make enough money in it–well, that is their own choice and responsibility to work out, with their own factors and life circumstances–there are plenty of people who go into fields that they know will most definitely not pay the bills (think: teaching). nursing is a good profession with a lot of diversity and room to move around, and yes, certainly to advance. if a man wants to earn decent parnassah, and not be in school forever, it seems like a viable, solid option, one that many have already begun to pursue.
I like the idea of men becoming nurses. It’s very uncomfortable for me to yell at women. <;)
Who are we going to call for a chaperone -the women nurses will demand more pay for the economic principle of -supply & demand?
Why not? It is a field for which there is always demand. And if you can get a job in a unionized institution, the pay and benefits are good.
Have any of you graduated nursing school and looked for a job in a hospital recently. Do any of you know any graduates looking for jobs? The field is flooded with graduates trying with no luck to get a hospital job because THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES, hospitals have been closing left and right and experienced nurses are being hired instead of nurses straight out of school. In order to get a decent job in a hospital you need 2 YRS HOSPITAL EXPERIENCE. How do you get the experience if you can’t get your foot in the door? And the only available jobs if at all is the night shift and weekends. How are you going to manage that if you are frum? PLEASE talk about what you know!!!
The available opportunities if you are lucky is a per diem job or a float nurse in a hospital but that doesn’t guarantee you work because you can be canceled daily and you don’t get benefits. Other Nursing jobs are Home care and depending on how many hours you are working, you might or might not be eligible for benefits. But benefits do not cover travel and car expenses. In addition, even if you work in Managed Care/Home Care or a doctor’ office this will not be enough experience if you want to get a Hospital job in the future.
Not only do I not think this is a good idea for young men, at this time it is no longer a good idea for young women!
Aries – Only partially true. To get a job in a hospital, you will probably need experience. But you fail to mention that most nursing jobs are in nursing homes. A new grad can get a job in a nursing home -probably most will accommodate frum Jews for time off. You can use the nursing home experience to later apply for jobs in hospitals -it counts as experience for the hospital setting. Also, being a male sometimes is advantageous -when I was doing an ER rotation in Coney Island Hospital, they hired a male nurse right out of school. He told me he was going to become a nurse practioner and had already signed up for it before getting this job. I asked him why? Because he told me he didn’t think he could get a job. He either got the job because they like males in the ER more than females or because he is Russian.
aries2756- you are a 100 percent right! I’m glad there is someone here who actually knows what they are talking about.
There is NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN THE TRI-STATE AREA! unless you are planning on practicing nursing in South Dakota or Idaho, i suggest you look into another proffesion. (Regardless if ur a girl or boy)
I personally know of 2 nursing graduates in NY, who are looking for jobs for close to a year. That is a very long time!
It may be possible to get jobs in other settings, but the hospital is the ideal place to master the skills taught in school, and if fresh nursing grads aren’t being accepted into the hospitals… thats a problem…..
It’s kinda funny to say a nursing job doesn’t pay enough when many men are encouraged not to work, or have no marketable skills. I think it is a fine career for anyone to enter.
Aries
You are 100% right. It is nearly impossible for a new grad to get a job in the tri-state area. The only exception is if she/he has some sort of serious “pull” with the facility. No one wants inexperienced new grads. I graduated in 2009 and I have only been lucky enough to find a per-diem job since then -and that was with pull! (which is not even giving me as much hands on experience as I really need).
Health, yes, a new grad can probably easily get a job in a nursing home, but nursing homes are awful places to work -each nurse often has 25+ patients at a time, thereby making it impossible to give any of them real nursing care.
Anyone interested can check out US News and World Report’s “Best Careers” for 2011. Registered nurse made their list.
Nurse – Most professions you have to start at the bottom. You can get a lot of experience in a nursing home. Also, in the nursing home you have to be assertive as a RN. You have to learn how to delegate tasks to the LPN’s and the CNA’s. Once you learn this concept, your job in the home won’t be so difficult.
I don’t know why, but I had to do a rotation in a nursing home or should I say SNF or LTC facility to be politically correct. :)>
Health- I have to disagree with you there. Most nursing homes that I know of are full of CNAs – they do most of the work, while the couple nurses give out meds and sit by the nurse’s station.
Hudi – What do you do for a living?
What are you disagreeing with?!?
Like I said you have to learn how to delegate tasks and it makes your job easier.
It’s a lot cheaper than medical school, and you have a parnassah four years after starting. It also requires a lot less of an investment in time to meet entrance requirements. Especially since frum Jews don’t like being touched by members of the opposite sex, there is a high demand within our community for male nurses. The hours tend to be better than doctors (e.g. never “on call”, flexible shifts). Especially for a Ben Torah, the ease of entry to the career and the rules of employment are an attraction. It pays a lot better than teaching in a yeshiva, and you can still arrange shifts to learn.
Given the aging of the population in America, there’s a good long term demand, at least for fully trained nurses – meaning a B.S from an accredited university (excluding some “quickie” courses designed within the frum community).
Nursing homes don’t pay the same as a hospital plus you are basically limited to geriatric care and not the specialties you might want to go into like ER, Med/surg, telemetry, pediatrics, maternity, cath lab, etc. You are basically supervising old people not necessarily very sick people, but immobile old people, or weak old people who cannot care for themselves at home.
You have more patients than in a hospital with more responsibility and less supervision. Not exactly an ideal situation for a new graduate. Also not an ideal situation for a patient!
AND Health, it does not help you with your application for a hospital because in order to get into an ER they want ER experience, in order to get into a good floor they want experience in that specialty and NO they don’t consider Nursing Home experience appropriate experience in these cases.
Aries – I never claimed that nursing homes are the ideal job for nurses. But it’s your foot in the door for the nursing profession.
“AND Health, it does not help you with your application for a hospital because in order to get into an ER they want ER experience, in order to get into a good floor they want experience in that specialty and NO they don’t consider Nursing Home experience appropriate experience in these cases.”
Look any job in the world they are looking for the best candidate. I just told you that I met a guy who got hired out of school for the ER. So if you apply to a job and there is someone with ER or Med/surg or ICU experience and you have nursing home experience, obviously they will be offered the job. BUT, if you have nursing home experience and the other candidates are new grads, you have a better chance of getting the job than them!
From your posts, it sounds like a relative of yours or someone you know is having a hard time getting a job in nursing.
plus you are basically limited to geriatric care
And don’t forget the mentally ill. They make up a large percentage of the nursing home population.
That’s because you live in Chaifa. Here in the US mentally ill & challenged patients by and far don’t live in nursing homes. We don’t commit them anymore. Most live in group homes or group facilities. Those who are a danger to themselves or others are committed to facilities. These are usually state psychiatric facilities with a few private ones. These people are almost non-existant in nursing homes.
I think it is wonderful that men are going into the nursing field. There is definitely a need for male nurses.
Yes I do have family who counted on the nursing profession and are having a very hard time getting their foot in the door.
Aries -Let them go to a nursing home or home care. Something is better than nothing. Also, try a city owned hospital, it’s easier for a new grad sometimes there.
health
i don’t know how much you know about new RN grads but hospitals are literally closed off to new grads unless you have a real “in” (talking about the tri-state area)
nursing homes are absolutely awful places to work
a lot of people are turning to per diem/part time jobs, homecare, or RN paperwork-type jobs where you don’t get much of hands-on experience
Nurse – You obviously didn’t read my second post. You can get a job in a city facility.
Nursing is womens work. Part of the reason that Paroh was a rasha was becuz he made the men do womens work and the women do mens work. Men shouldnt be nurses.
MR – Posting on blogs is also women’s work.
“MR – Posting on blogs is also women’s work. “
No its not. But nursing is and no man should go into it. We learn that from paroh.
Nurses are sometimes the true lifesavers and I have experienced male nurses in the hospital who were a lot more compassionate than some of the female nurses. So I am grateful for any nurse who help and truly care for their patients and are not just collecting a pay check.
We learn that from paroh.
I don’t trust paroh.
MR – “Posting on blogs is also women’s work. No its not”
Sure it is. Women post on blogs just like men. Women work in nursing just like men. If nursing is women’s work, so is blogging.
Also, blogging is Bitul Torah, Mr. Rose.
Rosie my boy, what makes you think nursing is a womans field of work? professional nursing has only been around about 100 years. Who do you think took care of patients before that? Have you read any ancient medical texts (Greek or Almoravid/Almohad)? If you did you would know that many many caregivers were MEN. Dating as far back the times of the gemara (and even further). Or did you think that only women took care of the sick men. In actuality, there were mens hospitals and womens hospitals.
Health, you couldn’t be more wrong on the state of the nursing profession, and your limited grasp of the general allied health field is suprising since you have suggested that you are a physician of some sort. The.Nurse is correct. There are almost no nursing positions available in the greater New York area. Nursing home expereience is actually frowned upon by hospital administrators. While the overall field is good, at this time and in the NY area there are almost no jobs to be had. Its a simple supply and demand equation. Large supply + little demand = no hiring. I am sure it will change at some point, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
“But nursing is and no man should go into it. We learn that from paroh. “
What a ridiculous statement. Nursing didn’t exist in the time of Paroh.
Try again.
“But nursing is and no man should go into it. We learn that from paroh.” By that logic, no women should become a doctor, we learn that from the Rambam (who was a doctor).
You can’t have it both ways — you want your wife to go to a female doctor, you want a frum doctor who understands the shailos — but no women and chas v’shulom, a frum women, should become a doctor. Wake up.
Ctrl Alt Del -“Nursing home expereience is actually frowned upon by hospital administrators.”
Are you saying they would hire someone with no experience whatsoever, than someone with nursing home experience?
I don’t know what your impresssion of my comments are, but nursing has gone the way of computer programmers. It used to be when you got out of school if you were a programmer, you got a job. Not anymore; there are jobs, but they are hard to come by.
The same thing with nursing. But, I stand by all of my previous comments.
“What a ridiculous statement. Nursing didn’t exist in the time of Paroh. “
No not nursing I meant the fact that Paroh forced men to do womens work and vice virsa. Nursing is womens work.
“You can’t have it both ways — you want your wife to go to a female doctor,”
I wuldnt want my wife to go to a women doctor. Being a doctor is mens work just like being a nurse is womens work.
“I wuldnt want my wife to go to a women doctor. Being a doctor is mens work just like being a nurse is womens work. “
My wife is a physician, I am not.
Please cite that verse in Chumash that declares that nursing is women’s work and being a physician is men’s work. There have been female physicians in the US since 1849.
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