Men Shteiging on Shavuos, Wearing Pants

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  • #609241
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Is good.

    Since women are equal and opposite, them doing the same is bad.

    QED

    #952020
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    The minhag of the Tanaim and Amoroim was to wear robes while they shteiged all night.

    #952021
    WIY
    Member

    I’m not sure one can say women are equal if they are talking in a Torah sense. Although under American law women are equal.

    #952022
    WIY
    Member

    42

    I’m glad that mens fashion moved forward 🙂

    #952023
    Sam2
    Participant

    The Gemara says B’feirush that it’s Assur for men to wear pants.

    #952024
    WIY
    Member

    Sam2?

    Really? Where? Why is it assur in that gemara and why is it mutar today to wear pants unless of course we just don’t hold like that maan daamar.

    #952025
    Sam2
    Participant

    WIY: Without being specific about the topic, I believe the Gemara is Niddah 13a. It says B’feirush that “Michnasayim” are Assur for a man to wear. See the Aruch Hashulchan (in Even Ha’ezer 21, I think, maybe S”K 13) who defines “Michnasayim” based on earlier Poskim in a way that makes a lot more sense than saying that “pants are Assur”.

    #952026
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    WIY: Under natural law women are not equal. Men cannot have children.

    I like writing mock proofs much better than real ones.

    #952027
    WIY
    Member

    Torah

    Neither one can have children without the other so yes they aren’t equal.

    #952028
    Sam2
    Participant

    WIY: You’re clearly not up on the latest sceince. Women can have children without men now.

    #952030
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Sam2: your “mareh mekomos” for the prohibition of pants for men must be erroneous. Aruch Hashulchan ,Even Ho’ezer 21 does not have a S/K 13 and I quickly perused the gemoro in niddah 13A and 13B that you are pointing to and I don’;t see what you are maintaining.

    #952031
    Sam2
    Participant

    ROB: Fine. I’ll actually look it up. It’s a random Mareh Makom. I’ll find them both again, I guess. Sorry. All the Mareh Mekomos I give here are guestimates anyway.

    #952032
    Sam2
    Participant

    ROB: Niddah 13b 4 lines from the bottom and A”H 23:7.

    #952033
    WIY
    Member

    Sam

    When they successfully produce a healthy normal child get back to me. I don’t believe they will succeed.

    #952034
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Sam2-thank you! And indeed, as you indicated- although the Aruch Hashulchan indicates it would only apply to tight pants.

    #952035
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, there are people who wear boxer shorts because of that Gemara. The limud z’chus for those who don’t is that being used to it from childhood, it doesn’t have the effect described in the Gemara. But, as ROB alluded to, our trousers are not assered by the Gemara.

    #952036
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: I did retract immediately. I have heard other reasons why boxer shorts are not preferable, actually, and it’s a good reason.

    WIY: I think they have. They can turn a stem cell from a woman’s lymph nodes and turn it into a sperm cell, which they can then impregnate her (or any other woman, really) with.

    #952038
    147
    Participant

    I wear regular pants on Shovu’os as this is the most comfortable way to be clad to get thru Shovu’os nite learning. Also the least likely to get stained should I accidentally drop some cheese cake.

    #952039
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    147, How can you eat cheeesecake while learning Shavuos night? Unless you are in the Southern Hemisphere where the learning is longer than 6 hours. Or perhaps you are yekke and only wait 3.

    (I will assume you aren’t eating in the Beis Medrash which would obviously be another problem)

    #952040
    just my hapence
    Participant

    42 – 147, How can you eat cheeesecake while learning Shavuos night? Unless you are in the Southern Hemisphere where the learning is longer than 6 hours. Or perhaps you are yekke and only wait 3.

    Or if, like many others, he has a milchig seuda on Leil Shavuos…

    #952041
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    There is a mitzvah of simchas yom tov with basar. If you want to be makayeim milchigs, have that in beginning of the meal, then (after the cheesecake mid-meal dessert) change over to fleishigs, bring out a 2nd challa l’zecher the shtei halechem, and then have meat.

    (I am well aware that many people have exclusively dairy meals on shavuos. This is especially helpful if you want to have milk with your coffee. I’m just being weird in an attempt to post a 147-like post)

    #952042
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator
    #952043
    apushatayid
    Participant

    It may be considered a lack of kavod hatorah to learn shavuos, or any night, sans pants. I think one is not permitted to enter a shul sans pants, even if he does not plan on learning. Also, since many shuls turn the AC up high to help facilitate staying awake, pants would be a good idea so as not to freeze. Of course, a good stadium blanket would do the trick too.

    #952044

    Men dressing tzniusly is good. Since women are equal and opposite, then doing the same is bad 🙂

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