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Is it a halacha that men must take a shower before using the mikvah, or is it just practical hygiene (or both)?
It is definitely a Mitzvah Deoraysa of Viohavta Lreacha Comocha.
It is a practical hygiene tip.
What is the Halacha in Shulchan Aruch is that it is assur to take a shower after going to the Mikva.
Not meakaiv as one can be toivel on shabbos.
Joseph: False! In the world of tuma and tahara being kept on the level of eating teruma and kodshim, there is one of the 18 gezeiros in the first perek of Shabbos about showering causing tuma. That does not apply to our level of tahara and to our mikvaos of today. Especially men’s obligation. And when it did apply, it included every shower one would take, even in the privacy of his own home – not related to the mikva.
There is a legend that someone asked RSZA zt’l if he should shower before or after the mikva. He said before because of bain adam lachaveiro, and then again after, because not everyone is makpid on bain adam lachaveiro.
Aside from the tiny number of men ascending Har Habayis, what does men going to mikva have anything to do with halacha?
Midwesterner: It’s in the Shulchan Aruch.
joseph: Source please?
Its a bit absurd that anyone would ask whether its appropriate (or halachically required) to shower prior to toiveling in mikvah. I think every mikvah I’ve ever been to has signs requiring a shower (and I assume the local Rav has approved such signage). As far as NOT showering after mikvah, for those who hold this way, for how long?? An hour? a day?
@midwesterner “That does not apply to our level of tahara and to our mikvaos of today. Especially men’s obligation. ”
There is no obligation for a man to ever go to the mikva.
GH: It is not “absurd” to ask if something is halachically mandated. In this case, we know that it cannot be “meakeiv” as L….11210 states above, one does not shower on Shabbos prior to going to the mikvah.
The source for not showering after immersing in the mikvah is Mesechta Shabbos Daf Yud Daled Amud Alef:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=2&daf=14&format=pdf
Translated in english:
And one who comes with his head and the greater part of his body] into drawn water, why did the Rabbis decree uncleanness in his case? — Said R. Bibi in R. Assi’s name: Because originally people performed tebillah in collected pit water, which was stagnant [noisome], and so they poured drawn water upon them selves. [But when] they began to make this a fixed [law], the Rabbis imposed uncleanness thereon. What is meant by ‘a fixed [law]?’Abaye said: They maintained, Not this [pit water] purifies, but both together purify. Said Raba to him, Then what did it matter, seeing that they did perform tebillah in this [the pit water]? But, said Raba, they maintained, Not this [the pit water] purifies but that [the drawn water].
That gemara in Shabbos, which I referenced above, has absolutely nothing to do with why men go to the mikva nowadays. Hence it is not referenced in Shulchan Aruch. Which is why when Joseph said twice that it is in Shulchan Aruch, and He was challenged for a source, he has suddenly gone uncharacteristically quiet.
I’m looking for the maare makom. I was going off memory. There certainly are sources that men bzman hazeh should not shower after the Mikva.
so im a girl (duh) but my brother never showers after mikvah.
gadol hador- he goes to mikvah every day so showers every day basicallySee ש”ך at the end of ר”א. There’s a decent argument to be made that it would apply to today’s men’s טבילה.
@DY If there is a decent argument, feel free to make it.
DY: Are you referring to the SHACH on the RAMAN in Yoreh Deah 201:75?
There never was an ‘Issur’ of Mayim She’uvim. There were two Takanos: going into Mayim She’uvim and pouring it. It wasn’t an Issur but rather it was Metamei.
But guess what: we are already Tamei.
The closest I’ve seen to an issue is the mention in Mishmeres Shalom of the Kodenaver, that some people refrain from bathing after the Mikva since it has the title of Tumah.
Also, on Erev Shabbos there is the Arizal’s concept of trying to retain the water and not drying it.
Sorry for not responding earlier. I don’t have access at night. The Shach over there is only quoting the gemara about the reason for showering being part of the 18 gezeiros. Those 18 gezeiros (well the first 10 or so at least that are about tumah/tahara) are all talking about tahara for teruma and kodshim. That is not what men are doing today. We are all possul for teruma and kodshim anyway. Everyone in today’s world has tum’as meis, which makes them at least a sheini, and most likely a rishon. There is no tahara for that without parah aduma. And even those who think they are doing tevilas Ezra, if they were really doing it for that – are they makpid to wait for bias shemesh to complete the tahara? Or do they walk out of the mikva feeling spiritually rejuvenated, but not much of a halachic impact? Not that it makes a bit of difference anyway. We pasken like R Yehuda ben Beseira that divrei Torah are not mekabel tuma (Ha’idna nahagi alma k’hani t’lasa sabi). So Tevilas Ezra in only relevant for Teruma and kodshim, once again see above.
And anyways, the entire 201 is talking about Tevilas Nashim, not men.Iacisrmma, yes, and I know it’s based on the gemara you mentioned.
Midwesterner, it makes no difference why men are toiveling. Whatever the reason is, a shower doesn’t do the job. So the chashash that someone will replace tevilah with a shower is relevant in any case a mikvah is required, whether it be tumah, tevilas Ezra, Kabbalah reasons, anashim or nashim.
(I know showering might be 9 kavin, but it isn’t usually, and still, mikveh is preferred, so the reasoning still applies).
@DY If there is a decent argument, feel free to make it.
Done. As far as being obligatory, we pasken not, but it’s a big sugya, and in fact, though not requiring it, the Mishnah Berurah praises the practice if it doesn’t interfere with keeping the zmanim. (See below.)
There’s also a very widespread practice to toivel before the Yomim Noraim and Yomim Tovim.
Tevilas Ezra has nothing to do with Bias Shemesh. The Tuma is De’oraysa and lasts until Bias Shemesh. Ezra’s Takanah is besides that.
Although the strict Halachah seems to do away with the Takanah, many Geonim, Rishonim and some Acharonim have not taken it that way. The Shaalos Tshuvos Min Hashamayim even criticised the Yerushalmi on this.
Regardless of the Chiyuv or otherwise, it is widely considered a prerequisite to learning Toras Nistar.
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