December 10, 2008 5:12 am at 5:12 am #627862Bais Yaakov maydelParticipant
im assuming you missed my post, brooklyner.
illini: thats not for me to decide, i was just stating my opinion, and you stated yours, and probably if i was in your place id be feeling put down as you described, but it’s a different view when you’re looking at it objectively. we can just agree to disagree.
and i respect that you had respect, even though bklyn is probably younger than you, to me thats a sign of maturity and graciousness. “bashing” was probably not the right word to use.December 10, 2008 6:00 am at 6:00 am #627863Mrs. BeautifulMember
JAPP, I agree with you all the way.
If you really trust your children and you show them respect I believe that u gain their trust, and they dont want to disappoint you.December 10, 2008 6:11 am at 6:11 am #627864
BYM: sorry, i did notice your earlier posts. i think i mentioned that the younger crowd on here more or less agrees with me.December 10, 2008 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #627865illini07Member
Likewise, I respect your opinion 😉 Agreeing to disagree is a perfectly acceptable result. Everyone gains from the exchange of ideas whether or not minds are changed.December 10, 2008 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #627866WOODRIGE1Member
brooklyn19 you sound like you grew tremendosley with your exper. doing a few stupid things when your a teen doesnt make you at risk…. but keep it up ill stay in the BM and have you stick up for the younger crowd!!!! thanks!!! 🙂December 11, 2008 2:40 am at 2:40 am #627867Bais Yaakov maydelParticipant
bklyn, i remember now, my bad 🙂
illini, my mind was never set to begin with, i like to stay open to the possibilities 🙂 but absolutely we all gain. glad we kud stay on friendly termsDecember 11, 2008 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #627869
WOODRIGE1: thanks. and yeah, i did grow since then, but not really from that – it’s despite that. which i think is what made me into a human being. fortunately, i have an amazing rav that helped me along the way. took a while, but we’re getting there. (“we” as in “I”!)
and if it’ll keep you in the bais medrash, anytime!December 12, 2008 12:48 am at 12:48 am #627870
Anyone who gives their kids a phone with internet accessibility is handing them a spiritual gun with guaranteed negative effects. Even if your son/daughter is the most frum student out there, the Ta’avos are Noreh Vuoyom and especially in today’s day and age where pritzus is at it’s peak. Don’t do it. Your killing Pure Neshamos for zero purpose.December 12, 2008 4:14 am at 4:14 am #627871mw13Participant
noitall, of course you shouldn’t give your kid a phone with internet. that’s begging for trouble.December 12, 2008 11:14 am at 11:14 am #627872SJSinNYCMember
I wouldnt give my child a phone with internet because it costs too much money.
I have a basic plan that I use for calls and a few text messages here and there. A computer is never that far away that you need internet. At least for me anyway 🙂December 12, 2008 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #627873
I’m with brooklyn on this, I also went to a very frum school, and had a great name, then convinced my parents to get me a phone in 10th grade when it was still rare for kids to have phones (I was the third girl to have a phone in a grade of 200), and I can honestly say that because of the TEXTING a lot of thing happened that I would never want my kids to go through. My parents did look at my bills every month but I don’t think that really helps so much being that they often didn’t question the numbers that kept appearing in the bills or I would just say it was one of my girl friends.
Based on my experiences, I’m very pro kosher phones because I think it’s very important for kids to be able to contact someone in case of an emergency. But on the flip side, kids will be kids and that’s all part of growing up and maturing, and they will be able to get around whatever you want usually.
Illini, it sounds like you are coming from a more modern perspective than brooklyn and I for that matter, but I agree with your points. I had a lot of friends that came from more open minded homes while I came from a slightly more sheltered home yet being that they were exposed to more, they felt less of a pull towards it. Each situation is different though.December 12, 2008 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #627874
Nobody ever answered the basic question of WHY the average mesivta bachur needs a cell phone to begin with? Who are they calling? Who are they expecting calls from?December 12, 2008 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #627875
Myshadow. You wrote. “I’m very pro kosher phones because I think it’s very important for kids to be able to contact someone in case of an emergency”.
Thats great. We are discussing boys in Mesivta. If chas veshalom there is an emergency, the yeshiva has a phone, and will surely usde it to contact you. If chas veshalom there is an emergency and you must contact your son, the same telephone will get you in touch with your son. Are you that concerned about your son o the trip to and from Yeshiva? Dont let him walk or ride the bus alone. Make him go with friends. Provide transportation. Why does he need a phone?
Again, can someone please explain why a mesivta bachur needs a phone at all?December 12, 2008 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #627876
True, technically they don’t need a phone at all, I was referring to kids that are not in mesivta, but even for those boys, although they don’t really need it, it’s a shtick and they are going to want it. Get with the times. I have two high school brothers in different schools and most of the boys do have. So if they’re gonna have it already get the Kosher phoneDecember 12, 2008 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #627877charlie brownMember
what you’ve written in this thread makes a lot of sense. I agree with you and thats why I never let any of my kids have cellphones.December 12, 2008 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #627878royaltyMember
i happen to agree that kids should not have cell phones especially not with internet. but i think that the kosher phone is a scam geared to make money for someone because the prices are expensive and if you really wanted you can block internet and texting from the phones on your plan if the main line which means the PARENTS request to turn it off. this works on sprint and verizon as far as i know and probably on the rest of the providers.December 12, 2008 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #627879royaltyMember
another point of interest whoever is telling rav matisyahu the problems of phones should get the facts first.if i were to forward a text message to someone else the original senders number does not appear on your phone. therefore the problem that appeared in the mishpacha magazine that girls would send a message and it would get forwarded to a boy who would then get her number and start a conversation are not going to happen. on the other hand this would happen if you would forward an email, so that’s the thing that should be banned, but internet should banned for plenty of other reasons .December 14, 2008 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #627880yrosMember
royalty, I’ve been telling people that also, i agree with you 100%; thanks for bringing it up!!December 15, 2008 12:40 am at 12:40 am #627881oomisParticipant
“Thats great. We are discussing boys in Mesivta. If chas veshalom there is an emergency, the yeshiva has a phone, and will surely usde it to contact you. If chas veshalom there is an emergency and you must contact your son, the same telephone will get you in touch with your son.”
You could not be more wrong, I am afraid to tell you. I once had a real emergency (my father-in-law O”H, fell and my husband and I were going to be at the hospital ER with him all day. I tried calling the Yeshivah to let my son know we would not be home and he should go to a friend. I also needed to let the school know, so they would ALLOW him to go home with the friend. I could NOT get through to the school at ALL. I was put into the voice mail menu, and kept getting disconnected at one point. I finally called my son’s friends’ mother, and asked her to pick my son up, and to explain the situation to the Yeshivah, hoping they would not give her a hard time about taking him home without prior written notice or a personal call from us. Fortunately they knew her for several years and took her at her word (some schools would not do so under any circumstances, and I actually respect them for that). The point is, calling the Yeshivah is not all it is cracked up to be.December 15, 2008 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #627882
Oomis. Your situation is clearly not a common occurence. Dont believe me? Randomly choose yeshivos out of the phone book and call. There is always someone to answer the phone. Even during seder.December 15, 2008 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #627883
Royalty, as brooklyn kept pointing out in this thread that on a regular phone there are many ways to get around parental blocks on internet and texting.
I’m not sure what people tell Rav Matisyahu, but there are many ways for a guy to get a girls number not involving forwarded messages. For example I once lent my phone to a girl, and the whole day I had some guy sending me messages because I didn’t know she called him from my phone.December 16, 2008 4:11 am at 4:11 am #627884
Anyone, can walk into any drugstore and purchase a prepaid cellphone. They can talk and text all they want to whoever they want, domestically and internationally, until the balance hits zero. Then, they buy a top up card and continue. It is totally anonymous. No paper trails either (it can be bought with cash -and no monthly statements).December 16, 2008 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #627885
So basically there’s nothing anything parents can do?December 16, 2008 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #627886000646Participant
Unless you keep your kid away from ANY contact with ANY modern day books, people and internet (wich is just not realistic and will definitly harm him later on life) by way of banning no, it simply wont be (and isn’t) effective.December 16, 2008 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #627887JAPPMember
Should high school girls be able to get cell phones?if yes whats the difference than mesivtaDecember 16, 2008 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #627888SJSinNYCMember
myshadow, thats why I promote teaching your kids how to handle these modern “challenges.” If you teach them properly, you won’t have to worry as much. Also, dont hand them a cell phone and not know who they are calling or texting. Monitor them and if you see a number that you dont recognize, call it and see who answers.
Kids need guidance and trust, but they have to earn the trust. If you let them know the guidelines in advance, then there are no suprises. If your child wants to do something wrong, no amount of your intervention will ultimately stop them.December 16, 2008 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #627889
jphone – a rebellious kid will go get his own phone. yes, every situation needs to be weighed. but bederech klal it’s not a good step to take.December 16, 2008 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #627890
Brooklyn. You say rebelious. I say curious. Personally, I think that instead of just assuring everything and writing Kol Koreis and implementing policies in yeshivos (boys and girls), we invest in teaching proper hashkafos. Explain how and why boys and girls should or should not use new technology instead of simply assuring everything.December 16, 2008 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #627891
i didn’t say assur. i have a phone. but i think that as long as it’s unnecessary, why risk it. yes, when they get older they could do whatever they want. but in a way it’s more risky when they’re kids.December 16, 2008 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #627892
Are you by any chance 19 years old? Because if you are then it’s ok to have a phone since you are hopefully at the age where you mature and don’t do stupid things without thinking.
I personally have a Blackberry Bold but have never used it for the internet- just email which is a must for me on the go.December 17, 2008 12:42 am at 12:42 am #627893
i’m not 19, but i’m not much older than that either. and i’ve done enough stupid things in my life that i can’t imagine what could possibly be left. i hope i never find out!December 17, 2008 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #627894
000646: “Unless you keep your kid away from ANY contact with ANY modern day books, people and internet (wich is just not realistic and will definitly harm him later on life) by way of banning no, it simply wont be (and isn’t) effective.”
That’s definately true but no one is saying to ban it completely. I want my children to have phones, but why will not having texting harm him later in life?
SJS: “If your child wants to do something wrong, no amount of your intervention will ultimately stop them.”
I agree with you a thousand percent
JAPP: It’s kinda in the same category, but maybe parents want their daughters to have it for safety reasonsDecember 17, 2008 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #627895
brooklyn19- never too late for Teshuva. Hashem loves you like the rest of us…December 17, 2008 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #627896000646Participant
I was talking about not letting a teen have a phone at all.
By texting it wont harm them not to have it, however it does increase the risk that they will go out and get there own phone that has texting without telling you.
Maybe its worth the risk maybe its not, it depends on the kid i guess.December 17, 2008 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #627897
True! Guess it all just goes back to one thing! We gota pray, do our part n hope 4 the best!December 17, 2008 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #627898
thanks, noitall- i knew that. i’m STILL full of myself – don’t worry ’bout my self esteem!December 17, 2008 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #627899
Re: brooklyn19 don’t wory I’m not. Just good to know that you can ALWAYS do Teshuva no matter what!
Concerning this whole thread. DAVEN DAVEN DAVEN when the Gedolim are asked about Chinuch where to be strict or leniunt with the kids, they say that there is no answer. Just daven away that they should grow up to be true Torahdik Yidden. Im”y by all of you-
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