Mi Shebeirach for Israel and the Soldiers
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- This topic has 27 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 1 month, 4 weeks ago by y1836.
March 27, 2023 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #2177535
How come yeshivish shuls don’t say it? In Europe the minhag was to say it for the king of the host nation.March 28, 2023 12:05 am at 12:05 am #2177610ujmParticipant
Because we make a misheberach for the President. Not for the army. And not for a foreign country and army.March 28, 2023 2:16 am at 2:16 am #2177613THE CHUUULENT HOCKERParticipant
bitul torahMarch 28, 2023 2:17 am at 2:17 am #2177617GadolhadorahParticipant
There is no prohibition on an individual or a tzibur offering a misheberach for those who protect their lives on a daily basis. They need the tefillos not more than ever before given the risks from terrorists and the internal strife within the country.March 28, 2023 2:18 am at 2:18 am #2177621takahmamashParticipant
“And not for a foreign country and army.”
Spoken like a true chutznik.March 28, 2023 6:22 am at 6:22 am #2177659commonsaychelParticipant
Spoken like a true chutznik
FYI we are still in gulus even when we live in Efrat or Kiyas ArbaMarch 28, 2023 9:03 am at 9:03 am #2177700AviraDeArahParticipant
If we said a mi sheberach for the IDF, why should we not say it fkr Hatzolah, Shomrim, and others who help jews? We already say acheinu…betzara uvshivya.
It’s only said because of an anti Torah attitude of putting them on a pedestal above other jews who are helping other jews.
Re, medina; you know EXACTLY why no one outside the Hebrew national community says it, or hallel on bones day, or anything else.March 28, 2023 9:04 am at 9:04 am #2177701akupermaParticipant
1.Traditionally, a prayer for the king was made only if it was someone we liked, or there were secret police informers lurking.
2. How is the IDF protecting anyone. The whole idea of an army was to have a war with the Yismaelim. More Yidden have been killed in the Arab-Israeli conflict than were ever killed by the Arabs in the 1300+ years since the conquered the Middle East. We should being say a bracha for the Bnei Torah in Eretz Yisrael who learn Torah and do mitsvos in spite of the zionists.March 28, 2023 9:32 am at 9:32 am #2177729Loyal JewParticipant
akuperma, the IDF protects in the manner of the hishtadlus that we are commanded to perform. As for the “whole idea of an army,” the name of this army belies what you say (“to have a war with the Yismaelim” [sic]). So does its conduct, which leans toward defensiveness even when something more offensive seems warranted. Finally, bodycount calculus is a cheap and usually a fallacious way to determine right and wrong in conflicts. In your case, it seems mistaken: Israel has lost around 25,000 r”l in all forms of Arab violence, and that sets the count at around 19 per year over your 1,300-year benchmark.March 28, 2023 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #2177727takahmamashParticipant
“We should being say a bracha for the Bnei Torah in Eretz Yisrael who learn Torah and do mitsvos in spite of the zionists.”
If it’s not kosher enough for them to be here, they can always move somewhere else.March 28, 2023 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #2177743anIsraeliYidParticipant
Lakewhut – you expect an intellectually honest explanation of this question in the YWN coffee room? Given the resident trolls (hello, Joseph/ujm/whatever name you’re using this year), reflexively anti-Israel posters, etc., I wish you luck with that.March 28, 2023 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #2177760midwesternerParticipant
Of course we say every Monday and Thursday. (OK, not during Nissan) Acheinu kol bais Yisroel hanesunim batzara etc.
Oh you mean that other tefila that was made to focus on a specific group, and to not include most yidden suffering in various situations all over the world? Tell me, please. Who is the one really lacking Ahavas Yisroel?March 28, 2023 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #2177761@fakenewsParticipant
Is it registered dancer on the fact that you have a Mi Shebayrach that was made up by scientists for Zionists and calls the Zionist Revolution, the coming of Moshiach and you were asking people to say wholeheartedly as those written by the Anshei Knesses Hagedolah.
There is another version that is much more tamed out that I’ve heard in some shuls in America, but even that one has pointed out by others on this thread, it’s sort of out of place (the IDF is neither our rulership nor rulership at all, unless you consider them to be a military dictatorship, which I don’t).
Therefore, why don’t we stick with including them in “kehilos hakodesh shemasru nafshum… yizkereim..” & “kol mi sheoskim…” & “acheinu…” among many other Tefilos which would include them. (and I’m not referring to vlamalshinim with that.)March 28, 2023 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #2177776☕️coffee addictParticipant
You remind me of a maaseh that happened to me when I was in Ner Yisrael
I was collecting for our sister city in yahud (chinuch atzmai school) and we come to a house and the wife says they only give to zionistic causes so she asked if Ner Yisrael celebrates Yom haatzmaut to which we said no, then she asked if we say the prayer for the Medina hand we said no, so she didn’t give us any money
I finally understood the vort about the chasidah and realized why it’s not kosherMarch 28, 2023 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2177817AviraDeArahParticipant
Coffee; compare that with the satmar rov zy”a, who gave copious amounts of tzadaka to anti frum zionists who were abandoned by their own.March 28, 2023 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2177833ParticipantParticipant
What mi sheberach? The nusach is “avinu bashamayim tzur yisrael…”March 28, 2023 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #2177967
Israel isn’t any other foreign country. It’s the country we should all ideally be living in which lives under constant threat. When the Arabs attack soldiers it’s because they’re Jewish not because they are Zionist. We live in a privileged post-67 world where it seems easy. If you were there in 67, you’d get it.March 28, 2023 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #2177966
The IDF puts their life at risk to defend the lives of Jews; it’s a bit different than putting on a spare tire in the middle of Monroe. They deserve recognition, whether you agree with the Israeli govt or not .March 28, 2023 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #2177980maskildoreshParticipant
I couldn’t find a source in Shulchan Aruch to add a Mi Shebeirach for a group of people who require Tefillos , worthy as they may (or may not) be.
During times of conflict in EY, in our Shul, we say a few Kappitlach of Tehillim after Davening followed by Acheinu . Sometimes the Rav makes an announcement requesting all to say Tehillim in the Zchus of all Yiddisheh in EY including the soldiers who are being Moser Nefesh for Klal Yisroel…
Far more appropriate , than a new Mi ShebeirachMarch 28, 2023 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2177982ujmParticipant
Lakewhut: It’s better to live in Southern Lebanon than in Eilat.
The Canadian police and army also protects Jews.March 28, 2023 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #2178032
And the US protects CanadaMarch 28, 2023 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #2178031
Chasidim made lots of changes to the nusach of daveningMarch 28, 2023 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #2178046lbjParticipant
The Idf does not represent klal Yisroel making a mishebeirach for them in Shul would give off the false notion that they represent klal Yisroel. They don’t, they represent medinas Yisroel.March 28, 2023 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #2178047GadolhadorahParticipant
“…Far more appropriate , than a new Mi Shebeirach”
Where do you find in Shulchan Aruch (or anywhere else for that matter) that it is assur for a Yid to offer any tefillah to the ebeshter that might supplement the normal teffilos to address a particular concern or need?March 29, 2023 10:20 am at 10:20 am #2178130
Lbj they risk their lives to defend klal Yisroel. Some of them know more gemara and Tanach than you on top of that.March 29, 2023 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2178143CentristParticipant
@gadolhadorah/joe, please dont pretend to know shulchan aruch(or anything else for that matter)
please stick to politics(or dont, either way is fine),but dont get involved with trying to ngive daas torah.stay in your lane.
i challenge you to look through the shulchan aruch and find the list of things that are assur to daven forMarch 29, 2023 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #2178612Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I have different sidurim from my family: one has a misheberach for Franz Jozef vemishpachto (by name), another for Nikolai Aleksandrovich vemishpachto. Clearly, it would not be possible to use both at the times when they were at war with each other! So, if we have those tefilos, it is probably OK to have tefilos for people who were freely elected by Yidden in EY.
Read the tefilos carefully. We are not asking for a brocha for anything they choose to do, we are asking Hashem to give them chochma (that they might be lacking).April 8, 2023 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #2180269y1836Participant
It makes a lot of sense to say the Mi shebarach for soliders. Regardless of ones feeling towards the state, here are the facts on the ground.
1) Eretz Yisroel has the largest grouping of Jews in the world, with millions of Jews there Bichasdei Hashem. The Arab countries surrounding it, and some Arabs inside it are trying to kill these Jews Chas Veshalom. The Soliders are being Moser Nefesh to defend these millions of Jews against their enemies.
2) The majority of these soliders are Jews. At least 125,000 Jewish soliders are in the Israeli army, in a potentially dangerous situation.
You can’t compare this with Shomrim and the like. With the Israeli army, you have a whole country of millions of Jews being protected, and you have over 100,000 Jewish soldiers in the army risking their lives to protect these Jews. This has nothing to do with Zionism but everything to do with a significant amount of Jews being Moser Nefesh to protect millions of other Jews from blood thirsty nations trying to kill them.
(I do personally beleive that Medinas Yisroel is a Chashuv thing, as did The Ponivetzer Rav, Rav Dessler, Rav Yaakov Kametsky, Rav Yechiel Michel Tichotzinsky, The Tzitz Eliezer, Rav Ovadya, Rav Herzog, Rav Yoshe Ber, Rav Elya Meir Bloch, and many other Gedolim, and possibly a Mitzvah Daraaysa (Lichaora, Lifi the Ramban), but this is not relevant to this discussion. Even if one were to take a very anti Zionist position, the facts on the ground are as said before.
It should be noted also that many (probably most) Gedolim considered soldiers in the IDF to be heroes, and held that IDF soliders that were killed were considered Neharag Al Kiddush Hashem. Just a few examples:
Rav Chaim Schmulevitz would often tell his Talmidim that any solider who is killed in service has the place in Gan Eden of the Harugei Lod.
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, when asked which Kivrei Tzadikim to Daven by, responded, “Theres no need to go all the way to Tzfas. When i want to Daven by Kivrei Tzadikkim, i go to the military cemetery in Mt. Hertzl to Daven (His Yeshivah, Kol Torah was right by Mt. Hertzl).
Rav Gustman went to ben Menachem Avel the father of a Ben Torah who served in the Idf and was killed during the Lebanon war. He told him “My son was killed Al Kiddush Hashem in the Holacaust, and is in a high place in Olam Haba, but your son is in an even higher place, because my son was killed without his choice, but your son willingly gave up his life to protect us all.” (page 192 in Artscroll’s Rav Gustman biography).
Rav Wolbe also writes about the tremendous gratitude we must have for the soliders, and that religious soliders are making a Kiddush Hashem.
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