men going to mikvah on shabbos

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  • #617738

    square root of 2
    Participant

    under what circumstances is it muttar to go to the mikvah on shabbos or yom tov (for a male, optional tevillah)?

    #1152695

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    under what circumstances is it muttar to go to the mikvah on shabbos or yom tov (for a male, optional tevillah)?

    Kohen Gadol on Yom Kippur. (Optional since he always has the option of stepping down and allowing another Kohen Gadol to be appointed.)

    The Wolf

    #1152696

    chatzkal
    Participant

    It’s permitted under all circumstances as long as you don’t dry any hair with a towel and are careful not to carry anything where there is no eruv.

    #1152697

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    A man can go to the mikvah on shabbos morning. Just don’t use hot water (see mishnah berurah 326:7).

    #1152698

    Joseph
    Participant

    Do Chasidim go to the mikva on Yom Kippur morning?

    #1152699

    shuni
    Participant

    here in har nof, yerhushalayim, men toivel every day inc shabbos/yomtov except (1) tisha b’av and (2) yom kippur

    #1152700

    feivel
    Participant

    “as long as you don’t dry any hair with a towel”

    I believe that is permitted.

    It’s not skita because the water is going from a solid to a solid. It’s even better than squeezing a lemon onto fish because you don’t want the water. It’s not libun because it’s derech lichluch.

    I think it’s suggested to do it by gently patting.

    #1152701

    mobico
    Participant

    What Feivel said. (Although Chasidim would frown on taking any Mikvah water off at all!) Going to a hot Mikvah is quite problematic (this is a much bigger issue with women’s Mikva’os, for some reason). For lukewarm /room temp. there is much room for leniency. If you want be a Kalta Litvak, then by all means go ahead!

    And Shuni – Howya doin, neighbor?

    #1152702

    feivel
    Participant

    I heard Chasidim want to retain the water as mobico said because it is kodesh and precious to them.

    Could be then a problem of hotza. I suppose.

    #1152703

    mik5
    Participant

    The Gra was against it.

    However, the custom of Chassidim is to permit, and indeed to encourage, immersion in a mikvah prior to the morning prayers on Shabbos and yom tov (for example, the custom is to immerse right before alos on the morning of Shavuous, after having immersed oneself in learning the whole night).

    #1152704

    anon1m0us
    Participant

    No issue going and no issue using a towel as it is derech lichluch. See gemara shabbos 147B

    #1580903

    jew boy2
    Participant

    What if the filter is on???

    #1580904

    michael2
    Participant

    One of my rebeeim Harav Refael Green A”H said that the Gra did go to the Mikva on Shabbos. The Stypler Gaon ZL stood in front of a fan on Shabbos after the Mikve to dry himself. Hagan HaRav Moshe Feinstein ZL held ( in egros moshe) that drying ones head lightly with a towel is mutar.

    #1581175

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    chassidim wouldnt go toival mikvah on tisha bav ,which is a drabannan but they would toival on shabbos which is a dorysa?

    #1581164

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Michael….did you mean to say that the Stypler wouldn’t use a towel to dry himself yet felt it was OK to turn on a fan to dry himself? Or did he arrange for the fan to be turned on by someone else or simply turned on before shabbos and left running all day?

    #1581157

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    What about the Mishna Berurah Shin Chaf SK Nun Hey (last two lines)?

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49625&st=&pgnum=293

    And Shin CHaf Alef SK Chaf Alef along with the Biur Halachah?

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49625&st=&pgnum=322

    #1582470

    jew boy2
    Participant

    does anyone hold that if the filter is on hat its assur to go in?

    #1582468

    jew boy2
    Participant

    bump

    #1582518

    Daniel45
    Participant

    Even according to those who are mattir,everyone holds that its assur to soak in the water longer than it takes to do the actual tevillos.

    #1582634

    Ysiegel
    Participant

    I thoughts I should mention that there is a famous psak of the Baal Hatanya (one of a number of psaks that he famously made, one being the use of polished steel knives for shechita) is the use of a heating system for a mikveh on Shabbos.

    *Without going into too much detail*, it is essentially based on the source of the issur itself: gzeirat haambatyaot, the decree of the bathhouses. Since in the hanhaga of Chassidim to toivel, the actual reason for the gzeira (mentioned explicitly as part of the gzeira) is not at all relevant, therefore there is no reason to prohibit it.

    This explains why in many Chassidic communities there isnin fsct heating in the mikveh on Shabbos.

    Filter is not a problem here because bepashtus there is no borer (what would the ochel be in this case…?)

    #1583378

    jew boy2
    Participant

    Ysiegel
    Participant
    “Filter is not a problem here because bepashtus there is no borer (what would the ochel be in this case…?)”‘

    No, I wasnot referring to borer…….Rather , if the filter is on , it could make the mikva not kosher…there for,you might not be able to go in

    #1584237

    Ysiegel
    Participant

    Aside from Borer, what issue could there be with a filter being turned on?

    You’re not causing it to work harder (lichora) by using the mikveh. I can think of no other svara that would cause it to render the mikveh unfit for use for Shabbos…

    #1586040

    jew boy2
    Participant

    #1584237
    Reply
    Ysiegel
    Participant

    If a mikva is, for whatever reason, posul—is it mutter to go in it on Shabbos?

    #1586048

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Ysiegel, the Baal Hatanya’s innovation in mikvaos had nothing whatsoever to do with Shabbos. His two big innovations, of which he was justly proud, were the use of sharp but fragile knives for shechita, and a contraption to enable WOMEN to tovel in warm water.

    There were no rainwater mikvaos in his day; therefore there was no such thing as a heated mikveh, and certainly not on Shabbos.

    also, you have completely missed the point about the filter. If the filter is on the mikveh is unfit for use. Therefore using it on Shabbos would be a problem.

    #1586179

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    There are two types of filters. One draws water out of the mikva and recycles it through the zriah bor. The other type sits in the Mikvah itself and doesn’t draw water out at all. Most poskim hols, I believe, that for men toiveling is fine with either one running.

    #1586288

    slominer
    Participant

    What is the Lubavitch shitta regarding mikvos that most non-Lubavitch shittos hold makes the mikva not kosher?

    #1587023

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Lubavitchers hold of bor Al gabei bor. Others hold of zeria and neshika Boros. See Wikipedia or Google it.

    #1587195

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The Chabad Mikvahs with the Mikvah water being on top the rain water is an innovation of the Rebbe Rashab, I believe, not the Baal HaTanya.

    Non Chabad Mikvahs can also be heated. The difference is that the heating is integral for the Chabad mikvahs to stay kosher for the hot water to stay sitting utop the colder rainwater.

    #1587266

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Unless the water is filtered on a real time basis or heavy chemical additives are incorporated into a circulation system, how would you assure the cleanliness of the water without completely draining, and cleaning of the mikvah and refilling after each use?

    #1587293

    Joseph
    Participant

    Hadorah: How do you think we Yidden went to the mikva during the Beis HaMikdash times? Filtered after each use? Thousands of Yidden dying from the mikva?

    #1587350

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Slonimer, it is NOT TRUE that “most non-Lubavitch shittos hold makes the mikva not kosher”. In fact there are no such shittos. Bor al gabei bor is the most mehudar mikveh design possible, and the claim that it is possul according to *one* shita, the Divrei Chaim, (not “most” shittos) is a brazen lie that certain people once circulated for political reasons. Anyone who bothers to look up the Divrei Chaim inside sees immediately that it’s a lie.

    In any case it’s irrelevant to the Baal Hatanya, because in his day there were no rainwater mikvaos at all, and therefore no question about where the best place to put the bor would be. Rainwater mikvaos only started to be built in Europe in the 19th century, which is why there was so much discussion among the poskim of the time about the ideal design for one.

    #1587389

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Milhouse:

    You’re just straight up wrong. Why are you trying to lecture people on their own shittahs? Are you a Lubavitcher or something?

    We know how we hold, and we hold that Chabad mikvahs are not good. Not everything has to be a big controversial insult. Yidden are allowed to have differences in halachic shittah; it’s not a big deal unless you make it one.

    Anyway, this thread has wandered quite far from being about Shabbos.

    #1587390

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Hey Joey….no evidence that “thousands died from mikvah related contamination” (which isn’t something I’d joke about but you have your own standards as to what is funny). My question was more in the nature of the specific filtration/decontamination mechanisms used TODAY at state of the art mikvos, both Chabad and otherwise, and what are the means for keeping the filtering process operative for use on shabbos for those who choose to toivel on shabbos.

    #1587687

    kaiserW
    Participant

    NevilleChaimBerliner

    Perhaps back up your “piskei halacha” with some actual sources?
    Millhouse quoted sources. You can disagree but why not just say *why* you think him to be wrong.

    #1587996

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I’m not arguing with him on the status of the mikvahs; I don’t care whether or not he uses him.

    The point is, he’s talking to people who got p’saks from their rabbis not to use Chabad mikvahs. What would you like us to do, posken like CR User: Milhouse instead of our rabbis?

    I can’t speak to whether or not “all shittahs” are against Chabad Mikvahs. But, his assertion that nobody says they’re posul just isn’t true.

    #1588010

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    warning for Litvaks: skip this post).

    There is a section of the Zemiros we say Leil Shabbos. It says “u’miyut avonos.”. Why would we ask Hashem for only a few aveiros instead of none? One answer is that it is technically assur to clap, dance and go to mikva on Shabbos. Sechita, whatever. But what kind of a Shabbos is it without clapping dancing and a hot mikva? It isn’t as geshmack. So we ask that the Aibishter forgive us these few.

    #1588111

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Baltimore:

    What kind of Shabbos is it without being able to drive to your favorite shul? What kind of Shabbos is it without being able to heat up a nice bacon double cheeseburger?

    What’s the difference between your usage of oneg Shabbos to be matir all kinds of issurim and the Reform movement’s? They make literally all the same points as you as did the Christians.

    #1588089

    Milhouse
    Participant

    NevilleChamberlain, name one genuine shita that holds bor al gabei bor is possul. There aren’t any. Any rabbi who “paskens” not to use such a mikveh is either an am hooretz or operating on sin’as chinom.

    The one shita that opponents claim passels such a mikveh is the Divrei Chaim, which is ironic since they ignore him on every other topic, while Chabad regards him as a serious posek; but their characterization of his position is an outright lie. Bor al gabei bor is kosher and mehudar according to his shita just as it is according to every other shita.

    #1588175

    Joseph
    Participant

    Milhouse, in what manner do the opponents twist the Divrei Chaim’s shitta? Do all who do so, twist it intentionally?

    #1588276

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Yes, Milhouse, everyone who ever disagrees with Chabad is either an am haaretz or operating on sinas chinam. I love it when you guys show your true colors on these forums and thwart your own propaganda efforts.

    I couldn’t care less what mikvah your women use. But, nobody wants your Chabad shittahs enforced on us. None of us asked for them. Just let us live our lives and stop assuming everyone is a “hater” if they don’t baby you and tell you how great you are all the time for being a Lubavitcher.

    By the way, it’s common sense that if something is done a certain way for thousands of years (eg. how mikvahs work) and then one group comes along in changes it, the absence of explicit approval of the new shittah implies rejection.

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