Mikvah Price Gouging

How much is this so-called “price gouging” anyways? Most places seem to be about $5 or $10 on Erev Yom Tov.

I’ll bet your wife pays 12 times a year at least double what you’re paying twice a year.

You should go to the Mikva at least every Erev Shabbos, if not every day, not just twice a year.

Joseph
Your last line threw me off “They are a Makom Kodesh not a capitalistic enterprise.”
Isnt that a reason NOT to price gouge?

ubiquitin

I think Joseph’s point is that by definition, it’s not price gouging. Price gouging would only make sense as an capitalistic endeavor.

Price gouging only works with supply and demand. That’s not the case here.

Takes two

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Prices are the same throughout the year unless there’s some kind of sort of shortage or something.

Joseph
For most normal yidden who have a family and job, life is already a treadmill with trying to get the kids off to school, getting to minyan a few times a week commuting to and from work, having dinner with the family, helping the kids with homework, caring for or checking in with elderly parents, etc. Toiveling at mikvah “every day” is not a realistic option for 90 percent of the frum tzibur.

got it Joseph Thanks

So if there was a mikva(not shul) that was well funded, and Erev Yom Kippur they decide t otake advantage and raise the price over that which was required for upkeep, you would be opposed to that?

Yitzchokm
Thanks for your explanation of Joseph. Certainly a valid point
However “Try getting into a private swimming pool. Let me know what that cost you.” Thats just it. I think it rubs people the wrong way when a mikva (Makom Kadosh) operates like a “private swimming pool” (capitalistic endeavor.) A mikvah should be made available to the tzibbur at cost (including salary for the people running it, that is part of the cost) It should not work like a private swimming pool, where they are trying to make a quick buck on days when people want to be mekayem a possible mitzvah.
Again, if the cost of operating all year when the mikva may not be well used, is defrayed by the increased revenue from Erev Yom kippur, then that is part of the cost.

How do you know I’m not in Brooklyn?

Because you paid $15 to use the mikvah.

I think they charge more on erev Yom Tov because people are going to come anyhow, but charging more during the year will cause there to be fewer people to come.

It’s simple economics.

Most (almost all?) mikvaos are not self funding, they operate partially on donations, so I don’t see where there’s any tayna.

“if the cost of operating all year when the mikva may not be well used, is defrayed by the increased revenue from Erev Yom kippur, then that is part of the cost.”

Of course it is. If you want the mikveh to be open and available to you for the twice a year you use it, they have to charge you money so that can cover their annual operating expenses. It happens to be, the costs increase on the 2 days a year most people want to use it because they require additional resources.

again, if $10-$15 is too steep, go to the beach.

Being involved in a few local mikvaos, I can tell you that What Daas Yochid says is exactly how it works. Mikva fees do not cover costs. Donations fill the gaps. They charge what they can and they’re still not making money. So when they have a captive audience, they try to reduce that gap. Also, as a followup to Joseph, where I live, if you buy a regular membership for either daily or weekly use, the Erev Yom Tovs are included, even ERH and EYK.

Yitzcokm
“When people were okay with dilapidated mikvahs”

I have never been to a non-dilapadated mikva. I’m not doubting that they exist but that isnt the scenario’s ive encountered. I dont understand how it can cost a dollar to clean a towel. And at any rate I bring my own towel. (Perhaps mikvas can stop offering towels as a way to save money if it is so expensive?.)

APY
“Of course it is. ..”
Then it is. That is what I said.

DY
“That would be a terrible business model.”
Unless there was a non-economic artificial factor driving people to go to the Mikva that day, in which case it is an excellent business model

It is very reasonable for the fee to include covering the original construction costs. Otherwise you’re being someach on third-party donors to cover the costs of building the mikva. All things being equal, everyone would equally share the cost for the construction through the usage fee spread out over time after construction.

Unless there was a non-economic artificial factor driving people to go to the Mikva that day, in which case it is an excellent business model

The point is if you’re running an operation where more customers means larger cost per person, there’s some mismanagement going on.

In my Yerushalayim mikavah the price went up to 10NIS (like $2.75) from the normal price of 7NIS (like $1.95).

@Meno
Assuming the building is paid for…ongoing expenses:
Utilities>>>water, electricity, gas, oil
Insurance……lots of possibilities of slip and fall accidents in a Mikvah (we tile, steps).
Cleaning>>>>>the showers must be cleaned, bleached regularly, floors swept, etc.
Supplies>>>soap, shampoo, towels, toilet paper
Upkeep on rotation>>>painting
Alarm system and monitoring
Telephone
Salaries

Imagine, just imagine, that Egged busses decide to charge an extra few shekels to go to the kosel on chol hamoed. They have extra load, need to hire more people, more expenses. So is it legitimate to charge?? Of course not!
Why is a Mikvah different? For your information, the Mikvahs in Israel do NOT charge more on Erev Yom Kippur than a regular Erev Shabbos. For that matter, they don’t charge more any Erev Yom Tov. Why is that? Because they only have one day Yom Tov! However, in Chutz L’aretz, they charge extra for 2 days of Yom Tov as it gives you a right to use the Mikvah each day. THIS is legitimate! Now, when it comes to Erev Yom Kippur they feel they can charge like Erev Yom Tov because people are just “used to” giving $5 on Erev Yom Tov. But in truth, the reasons don’t apply here because it’s only one day and plus we don’t use the Mikvah on Yom Kippur itself. So it should really be maybe LESS than Shabbos! If it’s not price gouging, it certainly is taking advantage of the customers!
If the Mikvah is not covering its costs then taking extra Erev Yom Kippur is a shaylas chacham. I personally feel it’s taking advantage of people and the better way is to charge more on a regular basis to fill in the gap. As I mentioned, in Israel where the Erev Yom Tov phenomenon doesn’t exist, nobody would think of charging extra on Erev YK. So my analysis seems correct.

Apashutayid and smn, of course they need more money to serve more people, but they get that already, because the extra people are paying.

The question remains why they need to charge more money per person.

“Assuming the original construction was already paid for, is there any other major upkeep if no one is using it?”

Who paid for the original construction? The twice a year mikva goers? If they did, then let them set the price for those 2x a year. More than like there is a mortgage or some other type of loan that financed the construction. The bank likes to get paid every month, not once a year after yom Kippur when the twice a year crowd showed up and paid $10.

Erev Chag expenses Are significantly higher than normal usage

So is erev Chag income significantly higher than an ordinary day, even without changing the price.

and yes maybe it’s an opportunity to put away a few dollars for future large expenses.

That part makes sense. Saying that they charge more per person because that day’s expenses are higher doesn’t make sense.

I think part of this feeling was mentioned very early in the thread but got lost. It used to be very common for the price of kosher chickens and meat to rise significantly right before chaggim for no discernible reason .
For Pesach it was worse. About 20 years ago, the price gouging for non meat was exposed by a Long Island supermarket in my town owned by a non religious Jew. He had opened a brand new building across from his old one about a month before Pesach. His lease on the old store, now empty, still had two months to run and someone gave him the idea of a Pesach superstore. When he saw what the wholesalers were charging ,for the same canned and paper goods he bought all year, he couldn’t believe it. He demanded that they charge regular prices unless they could justify the significant increase. They couldn’t and charged him regular prices and he passed those savings on. When I called my Brooklyn friends and they heard about it, they drove out and saved significant money.

I can still remember my mother complaining about meat prices. My uncle was a shochet in the Midwest and he would tell us that shechting was the same all year round and butchers could raise their prices because they could get away with it

@Meno
Even if the Mikvah wasn’t used most of the year, the expenses I listed would exist.
An organization would not dare operate without insurance, both liability for slips and falls, etc. and casualty….fire, theft, a tree crashes through the roof, etc.
Towels need to be purchased and cleaned, soap, shampoo, etc is needed.
Especially if not used regularly, deep cleaning is required. Have you ever opened up a bungalow or winter vacation home after a long absence? Dust, dirt and dead inssacts will be there, no matter how well you cleaned before leaving,
Utilities>>>you still need water, maybe air conditioning, a heat source for water and building, electric lights, etc. Here in New England, you must heat to a minimum of 50 degrees F in the winter or risk freeze damage to the water system
Payroll….who cleans and fixes for free?
Upkeep? it will need painting every so many years, grout needs cleaning, rubber flappers in the toilets need replacing

To the best of my knowledge I don’t know CT Rebbe…………………

Pricing is based on 2 things: supply/demand and opportunity to raise funds. You might ask why a Kallah is charged 3 or 4 times the regular rate before her wedding compared to what she’ll pay afterwards.

BTW>>>>OOT most communities have only 1 or 2 mikvaos. In our area there are set fees for women, but just a place to leave a donation for men.