Minhug Chasidus (Davening Late, Mikvah, Tish, etc.)

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  • #592448
    myfriend
    Member

    Davening Late or Davening Mincha after Shkia – Davening Minchah after Shkiya is the opinion of Rebbeinu Tam, the Shulchan Aruch, and the majority of Rishonim. They hold that the Shkiyah is really like 40 to 58 1/2 minutes later than what is commonly referred to as shkiyah. Until then it is day. This is a halachic opinion, and has nothing to do with chasidim. R. Akiva Eger held like that, and so did tons of other poskim. The Vilna Gaon held differently, and he had a tremendous influence in Lithuania, and so it became a Litvishe thing that you have to daven minchah before “shkiyah”, but in reality the majority of Rishonim disagree. This machlokes applies to every halachah that depends on night, Shabbos included – it was the custom in many places in Hungary and Poland to do melachah after shkiyah (See Kitzur Shulchan Aruch)! However, since Shabbos is d’oraysah, most of those who daven minchah after shkiyah will mostly keep shabbos once shkiyah occurs, but only as a chumrah.

    Davneing Shachris late is another thing. That is a chasidishe thing, and it is because the Rebbes (and Chasidim in the olden days) used to prepare for their davening early and their preparations, they held, was considered the beginning of their davening. These preparations were always started during the zman tefilah. Once you start davening – or preparing for davening – during the proper zman, you may, according to many shittos (see Aruch Hashulchan hilchos tefilas haderech) continue your davening even if it extends way past the zman. So if they began their preparations during the zman, they may pray the actual shmona esrai afterwards, they held.

    According to this, it would be prohibited for chasidim to begin davening after the zman, if they are not involved in such preparations beforehand.

    Going to the Mikvah every morning – This is all over Kabbalah. Going to the Mikvah purifies the soul in important ways. Especially before learning Torah or praying it is brought that Mikvah is important.

    Dancing – its part of what you do when you are celebrating a mitzvah. Simchah shel mitzvah is a wonderful thing according to everyone. Dancing on Shabbos despite the halachah of shema yesaken – the Minchas Elozor permits halachicly. Please refer to his Teshuva.

    Davening by the graves of Tzaddikim – This is way before chasidim, in the Arizal and the Zohar even. Not all Chasidim are so keen on this, by the way. But the idea is that we pray to Hashem in the merit of the Tzadik.

    Tish or Farbrengen – In the Arizal youll find that the table of a Tzadik is like a mizbeach and his food is like a Korbon. You will find this concept even in the Ruach Chaim of Rav Chaim Volozhen on Pirkei Avos (K’ilu achlu m’zivchei meisim). The shirayim of the Tzadik therefore is like eating from a korbon.

    Sleeping in Tzitzits — This comes from the Arizal, and there is a source in the Gemara Menachos 43a, where it implies that Dovid Hamelech wore his Tzitzis all night. This does not mean to say there is any obligation to do so, nor is it a Halachic Mitzvah, but rather a Kabbalistic behavior that benefits the wearer. It is as much a Sefardishe thing as a Chasidishe thing, since the Chida says to do it and the Ben Ish Chai Kaf HaChaim say that this is the prevailing Minhag.

    If you sleep in your daytime clothing then they would hold – and the Shulchan Aruch rules l’chatchilah you should wear tzitzis at night on day clothing – that you should keep tzitzis on them.

    A Tzadik is supposed to be such a lover of Jews and so connected to each Jew that the pain of each individual Jew hurts the Tzadik as if it were his own pain. Therefore, if lets say there was a gezeirah on someone that he should c”v be childless, and thus go through that pain, there was, however, no such gezeirah on the Tzadik. But since the Tzadik is usffering as if he himself had that tzorah, and there was no gezeirah that the Tzadik should go through that, but rather he is suffering due to his bechirah and love for every Jew whose pain he feels as if it were his own, therefore, in order to alleviate the Tzdik’s suffering, Hashem has to fix the childless couple. Not for their sake, but for the sake of the Tzadik.

    They also believe that righteousness is part of “daas torah” — the more a persons midos are perfected the less “negiyos” he has — the Mesilas Yshorim says the biggest shochad is the Yetzer Horah’ taavos — and so they see their Rebbe as a clear thinker.

    My suggestion is to take the approach of the holy Saraf of Muglenitz ZTL, one of the great Polish Rebbes, quoted by Rav Klonimus Kalman Shapira, the Piesetzna Rebbe ZTL (Derech Hamelech Parshas Ekev):

    A group of avreichim asked my ancestor, the the holy Muglenitzer Rebbe ZTL to teach them Chasidus. He answered them in his holiness: “Daven and learn and don’t waste time – that is Chasidus!”

    Many great Rebbes have pointed out that if you want to be Chasidish the first step – and this is a big one – is first to be a frum, ehlicher yid. After we have perfected that, we can take it from there. But we have to walk before we can run.

    #698484
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Is this in reference to something

    #698485
    charliehall
    Participant

    There are a few other common Chasidic minhagim; can anyone cite the sources that justify them?

    Examples:

    “Nusach Sfard” or “Nusach Ari” tefillah.

    No tefillin on Chol HaMoed. (Briskers, followers of the Vilna Gaon, and Sefardim also do not wear tefillin on Chol HaMoed.)

    No gebrochts the first seven days of Pesach.

    Eat only glatt meat. (Sefardim are even more machmir.)

    Women don’t say kaddish in shul.

    And of course the common Chasidic styles of dress.

    “the first step – and this is a big one – is first to be a frum, ehlicher yid”

    That should be true of all of us whether we are Chasidic or follow a different derech. Thank you for the informative post.

    #698486
    apushatayid
    Participant

    The point of all this?

    #698487
    so right
    Member

    Minhag avoseinu beyodeinu, Minhag Yisroel Torah Hu.

    #698488
    theprof1
    Participant

    The point of all this? Is this blog site only for questions or issues? Can’t anyone just start a string by stating some interesting facts. I think this was very informative for many people. Next.

    Nusach Sfard or Arizal. Back when chasidus started Sfard was deemed to be a “holier” way to daven. The Arizal said that during the time of the 1st beis hamikdosh when we had a federated nation of 12 nations, each sheivet had it’s own liturgy. There was however, a 13th liturgy, which the Arizal said was his re-creation, that was considered universal or “accepted” by Hashem no matter who davened that way. Since we don’t know which sheivet we belong to, the Arizal said we should daven his nusach.

    No tefilin on chol hamoed is not a prevalent chasidic minhag. Bobov and Satmar bochurim do put on tefilin.

    No gebroktz is a minhag of pure kabbalah, no source in din. There’s a very seminal discourse of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Ztzl from approx 1954 that discusses this in depth.

    Eating only Glatt kosher meat was a chumrah in Europe. Today the reason for Glatt started because the shochtim of plain kosher just plain were not reliable. Many weren’t even shomer shabbos. Most of the butcher stores had the same issue. Many butchers weren’t shomer shabbos.

    Women not saying kaddish isn’t exactly a new trend. Women never said kaddish in a shul. That’s a new women’s rights issue.

    Chasidic dress was modeled as looking different than goyim of Europe. Dressing long has always been a yiddish concept. Wearing 2 head coverings, a yarmulka and a hat, is mandated in shulchan orech. Actually the concept of a gartel is too but there is a heter if you’re wearing a belt. Even so, chasidim wear a gartel because of a posuk, “make yourself ready to stand before Hashem”.

    #698489
    yaff80
    Participant

    No teffilin on Chol Ha’moed:

    This comes (as far as I understand) from the ideas that Chol Ha’moed is really Yom Tov, which is patur from Tefilin. The ashkeneizim feel that it is more chol than Mo’ed whereas those who have sefard minhagim hold it is more Mo’ed than chol!

    #698490
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Women never said kaddish in a shul.”

    Rov Soloveitchik recounted hearing women saying kaddish in the shul of his grandfather, Rav Chaim of Brisk, in Lithuania. Of course they weren’t Chasidic.

    #698491
    charliehall
    Participant

    ” Wearing 2 head coverings, a yarmulka and a hat, is mandated in shulchan orech.”

    I’ve never seen that in the SA. Please cite the reference.

    #698492
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Since we don’t know which sheivet we belong to, the Arizal said we should daven his nusach.”

    But neither the current Nusach Sfard nor the current Nusach Ari is exactly what the Arizal used. The current Nusach Ari is really due to the Baal HaTanya. (Not a bad gedol to follow! But that means it is only 200 years old.)

    #698493
    Darchei Noam
    Member

    How can someone (either a bt or ffb) become Chasidish?

    What’s the reason for the different “havoros”?

    And why is it called the Chasidish Havora, when some non-Chasidim (i.e. “Oberlanders”) use it? (And some Chasidim [i.e. Stolin] use the Litvish Havora!)

    And where exactly do “Oberlanders” fit into the Chasidish/Litvish picture?

    #698494
    Horrified
    Participant

    can anyone explain why in some shuls they spend a hour and a half on pesukai D’zimra and then just 5 min on Shomone Esreh?

    isn’t Shmone Esreh more important?

    #698495
    WIY
    Member

    Horrified

    So that the people who come late can catch up.

    #698496
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    Horrified – 5 minutes on Shemoneh Esreh is usually sufficient time for many people.

    As far as devening late, it is actually an inyan (i.e. better) to daven Mincha as late as possible.

    #698497
    mw13
    Participant

    “As far as devening late, it is actually an inyan (i.e. better) to daven Mincha as late as possible.”

    Only until shikiah.

    #698498
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    mw13, there is a machlokes when shkiyah is, with many poskim ruling it is 40 to 58 1/2 minutes later than what is commonly referred to as shkiyah.

    Whenever you hold shkiyah is, it is best to daven mincha right before that shkiyah.

    #698499
    theprof1
    Participant

    According to most rihonim shekiya is what we call astronomical sunset. Rabbeinu Tam says that shekiya is actually a time period that starts from sunset and ends about an hour later. According to him you can daven mincha until the end of shekiya. This davening “late” mincha is mostly by Hungarian and Galitzianer chasidim. The Polish and Russian chasidim daven until sunset. One reason for davening mincha late is that mincha is a time of “din” and we want to push it away as long as possible.

    “How can someone (either a bt or ffb) become Chasidish?

    What’s the reason for the different “havoros”?

    And why is it called the Chasidish Havora, when some non-Chasidim (i.e. “Oberlanders”) use it? (And some Chasidim [i.e. Stolin] use the Litvish Havora!)

    And where exactly do “Oberlanders” fit into the Chasidish/Litvish picture? “

    Answers: You become chasidish by following the customs of a chasidic sect and adhering to the rebbe in all ways.

    The different havoros come from historical changes in pronounciation like any other languistic dialect. It’s called the chasidish havoro because only chasidim use it. Stolin and Chabad pronounce Litvish because that was the havoro in their areas. The havoro is more a geographical dialect rather than a sectarian one. Oberlander are not generally chasidish but some are or have become over time. Their dialect is partially chasidic and partially Litvish. Their customs are generally pure Ashkenaz or somewhat like the German Jews. They are definitely not Litvish in nature or customs.

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