July 5, 2013 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #609955pixelateMember
Mema’atim- the level of happiness is “diminished”-
But not lost.
Common misconception.July 5, 2013 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #964962tzaddiqMember
in other words
😀July 5, 2013 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #964963
pixelate: That’s what one would think. However, Tosfos says clearly (I think somewhere in Yevamos; I’ll try to find it) that M’ma’atim means eliminating completely. (Except in certain necessary exceptions as stated in the Gemara.)July 5, 2013 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #964964eclipseMember
It doesn’t mean “Heaven is in a bad mood”(kivyochol) and now only bad things will happen, c”v. The world is still and always being run buy a loving Hashem. It’s not an especially happy time, we mourn our too-long Golus,etc…..but rest assured Hashem is not “out to get us” in the 9 days.
And you don’t have to mope around or greet everyone with a sad face.July 5, 2013 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #964965eclipseMember
But it’s not the best time to schedule a surgery, court case,etc. There are other months of the year which are more MESUGAL for glad tidings.July 7, 2013 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #964966pixelateMember
Sam2 – since when does Mima’atim mean eliminating completely.
Also, my shul says hallelJuly 7, 2013 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #964967
pixelate: Since this case, apparently, according to Tosfos. Well, it doesn’t mean eliminate. It just means diminish. But we don’t know how much to diminish. So Tafasta Muat and take the least common denominator and diminish until 0.July 7, 2013 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #964968WIYMember
I heard a pshat the memaatin besimcha means we lower our simcha in physical matters and rather start putting a bigger focus on simcha shel mitzvah and getting joy from spiritual pursuits. One is certainly not meant to mope around and be a kill joy. Use your seichel.July 7, 2013 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #964969ToiParticipant
Sam2- i seem to recall a Gra who is midayek the lashon that it does indeed mean to diminish, and not to eliminate, with regards to av.July 7, 2013 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #964970147Participant
The world is still and always being run buy a loving Hashem. Especially in light of the fact that the name of the month is “Ov” which means “Father”, and in fact is the only month of the entire year whose name has a specific meaning. Clearly a “Father” is not going to reject us, but may wish/need to fix wrong things.
As far a “Me’atim bSimcho” clearly not consuming is going to lead to a massive reduction in Simcha, as my stomach is not adept to vegetarian dishes etc.July 7, 2013 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #964971
WIY: I disagree. One is meant to be a killjoy. Otherwise you’re missing the point.
Toi: I seem to recall that too but I’m pretty sure I’m right about this Tosfos. It’s talking about Binyan in particular. I don’t remember where it is though. I think it’s in Yevamos.
147: Really? Av means father in Farsi and/or ancient Babylonian? It could be, but I don’t think so. All of the months names’ have meaning. They’re just not a language we know. Or did you think that Chazal/Nach/the leaders at the time gave gibberish meanings to the months?July 8, 2013 3:14 am at 3:14 am #964972ymhtb1Member
My Rov said that Chassidim don’t like that vort. We say MisheNichnas Av Mema’atim, – Besimcha! Although we are not on that level today IY”H one day we will be. and we should all see the coming of Mashiach this year very very soon.July 9, 2013 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #964973ToiParticipant
ymh- come on, thats a joke.and bilaam was a tzaddik.July 9, 2013 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #964974
ymhtb: One has to be very careful when saying such things. It’s a Halachah, not a “vort”. It’s one thing to retain a positive outlook on life even in down times. But one must be very careful not to distort Halachos.July 9, 2013 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #964975akupermaParticipant
so doesn’t that mean we are supposed to spend more time reading the news on YWN? Between Lapid, Spitzer and the goyim – it makes it too easy to have less simchaJuly 11, 2013 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #964976rabbiofberlinParticipant
The gemoro has very specific examples and instructions what “memaatim besimcha” meas and it is mentioned in shulcahn aruch. Nowhere does it say we mustgo around with a long face and flagellate ourselves. And- YMH’s “vort’, quoing chassidim, is a reaction to two thousand years of pain and exile. “Ad kan”!
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