July 3, 2015 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #615951Zev7Member
Chazal say many important things. These “hashkafic” sayings that we see in the mishna, gemara, medrash were said by torah giants who had an outstanding comprehension of kol hatorah koolah, and spent their entire lives only serving hashem. With such chachma and tzidkus, they said lots of things about how people ought to act and live their lives.
Much of what they said sounds very vague and can be interpreted in different ways. Especially when we find two different maamarim that seem to contradict each other or at least stressing two opposite ideas.
When we learn a sugya in gemara pertaining to halacha, we analyze every word that was said, try to understand every shitah, see exactly where the machlokes is, try to see why we might understand one shitah over another etc. and even then we never pasken from a gemara. We always rely on the understanding and interpretations of the greater torah scholars who came before us and who they paskened like.
And yet… what I have noticed when it comes to hashkafa inyanim, is something completely different. People decide what they feel the correct way to think is, and then they find a gemara somewhere that seems to be saying something of that sort, and then everyone who doesn’t agree with them is either a chatzi kofer who be’etzem belongs in YU, or a closed minded yeshivishe guy who can’t think for himself.
There is always going to be a chazal somewhere that says something that will help you “prove” your shitah. You can’t just pull out a gemara and say “it’s a ofaneh chazal!” IT’S NOT OFANEH! It’s a saying that can be understood in so many ways. And if i want i can find a saying that seems to say the opposite.July 3, 2015 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1090413JosephParticipant
That’s why we have Gedolim. They’re qualified to explain a Chazal.July 3, 2015 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1090414☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I agree with the concept. This is why it’s so important to have a mesorah from a rebbe or rebbeim who in turn have a mesorah from their rebbeim.July 3, 2015 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1090415HaLeiViParticipant
The reason we don’t Pasken on Hashkafa is because the mind has room for more than one idea, even at one time. Eilu VaEilu is always true, but in action we can only do one. Therefore we need to ‘Pasken’ one way or the other. But in ideas, we do need to incorporate even conflicting ideas and judge and balance between them.
I find a Remez to this in the fact that Shel Rosh has four compartments whereas Shel Yad has only one.July 3, 2015 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1090416sushibagelMember
Every koifer, poshei yisrael or just obnoxious person can always get nd a mamar chazal to twist around and back himself up but on the inside they know what Chazal really meant.
its a bit like a subtitle a once saw “not what I meant and you know it”July 3, 2015 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1090417👑RebYidd23Participant
Hey!July 3, 2015 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1090418Sam2Participant
I dispute the premise. We always Pasken from the Gemara. If a Psak is like the Rashba it’s not because the Rashba said so. It’s because the Poskim over the generations decided the Rashba had the clearest/best Pshat in the Gemara.July 3, 2015 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #1090419☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
You’re just disputing his choice of semantics.July 5, 2015 3:04 am at 3:04 am #1090420147Participant
“Lo Tov Heyos Ho’Odom leVado, E’eseh Lo Ezer knegdo” clearly means union of a man with a woman, and anyone who dares misuse this Possuk in anyway whatsoever to describe any other union, is totally misusing this Possuk, and profaning a hallowed Possuk from our hallowed Torah.May 4, 2023 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #2187241n0mesorahParticipant
I agree with Halevi’s sentiment. But the OP is saying that aggadah has to be actually learnt. You can’t just quote the words. So I humbly disagree with the other posters about our gedolim and my mesorah and your rebbe. See the Gemara inside and learn up the whole page. And then (Only then!) we can see if our own ideas have any legitimacy left.
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