December 29, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #601374
I’d like to address something that has been bothering so much that it has made me feel ill. I want to state the problem, and then I’d like to ask the mods if they can agree to raise the standards here for this issue.
Here’s the problem: The attitude of a few of the members here. There are a few members here that simply cannot have a peaceful conversation with others they may not agree with. They just resort to insults, name-calling, judging, accusing, and embarrassing. Not only is that not the way for a Jew to behave, but it is not the way ANY adult should behave. They are like children. Because these people have such an attitude problem, and such a negative view of others, they enter a conversation and poison it. Some conversations here have turned into a pile of misery, negativity, and insult because of a few people that can’t control themselves.
Now, here’s another problem: These people refuse to believe they are doing anything wrong. They justify themselves over and over, insulting and embarrassing many others along the way. It is clear that these people need help, need mussar, but they refuse to receive any because they don’t think they have a problem. They’re like my father, who is a child molester, and no therapy worked for him because he refused to believe he had a problem.
I am certain that my post right now will have no effect on these people because they ignore any words that may show they have a problem. So I ask the mods to do something:
If you see a thread that is turning into a personal attack, insults someone, embarrasses someone, or attacks another group or sect of Jews, please either delete the offensive post or just close the thread down. And anyone that you see is constantly posting insults or attacks, please block the person altogether.
I’ve written many essays in the CR about things that I think some members here really need to work on. Actually, we can all work them, but certain members in particular can really work on them. But they haven’t really changed anything. And more essays from me won’t help. They just won’t read them. So I think it’s time to ask the mods to step in.
I used to like the CR, and I want to stay here. But I cannot stay here if I see such terrible rudeness, attacks, and insults going on. The CR then turns into a Kindergarten playground fight. Not the whole CR, though. There are a few threads, like the Poetry thread, that really are beautiful.
But for the other threads, mods, please do something. Thanks.December 29, 2011 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #8438492scentsParticipant
I will be hones, i have only read the firs paragraph.
I hate reading long Megilos!
that said. I would suggest that you and everyone else should just ignore those troubled individuals.December 29, 2011 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #843850yentingyentaParticipant
+1. well written.
in the same thought, i stopped reading certain threads when i see certain tones/posts. other threads I’ve seen have ‘arguments’ that are so different. the posters disagree, they talk it out and its over! (i see this mostly in halacha based threads where 1 poster brings a proof/source and the other concedes). but the threads that dissolve into name calling and people bashing should be cleaned out/closed asapDecember 29, 2011 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #843851WolfishMusingsParticipant
They just resort to insults, name-calling, judging, accusing, and embarrassing
If it offended you, I apologize for my “doodyhead” comment.
The WolfDecember 29, 2011 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #843852goldenkintMember
i agree with middlepath. if someone is spewing venom maybe they should be blocked. its very offensiveDecember 29, 2011 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #843853Avram in MDParticipant
If it offended you, I apologize for my “doodyhead” comment.
Once things sunk to that low, I thought that perhaps the mods should institute a nap time after apple juice and snacks 🙂December 29, 2011 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #843854OneOfManyParticipant
+1December 29, 2011 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #843855TheGoqParticipant
There are certainly people here who enjoy stirring the pot and keeping the flame of disagreement going we know who they are and we must do our best not to respond to their posts because we know they love to fight and will find any excuse to do so, ignoring them may sound like childish advice but i think when you are committed to it it can really work.December 29, 2011 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #843856Queen BeeMember
Sorry you’ve been feeling ill over this =(. I’d hate to see you leave the CR because of some idiots who won’t behave like respectful, mature adults. I don’t think these people will change, so try not to let them bother you. They’re not worth all of this.December 29, 2011 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #843857
Thanks,yentingyenta, goldenkint, OneofMany, and QB, for agreeing. QB, thanks for your sympathy about my feeling ill, it doesn’t happen that often though, thankfully.
Wolf, don’t worry, I wasn’t offended at all by your comment.
2scents and Goq, that’s true, ignoring does work. It just kind of gets frustrating when a large portion of the threads that are up are full of people you are trying to ignore.December 29, 2011 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #843858kapustaParticipant
You said it a lot nicer than I would have.
Mods, anytime you want to ban you-know-who is fine with me.December 29, 2011 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #843859Sam2Participant
I apologize if anyone is offended by any of my comments. Sometimes I feel that it is necessary to defend a practice or a group of Jews. I try to post level-headedly, but it’s hard to convey level-headedness via the internet.December 30, 2011 12:19 am at 12:19 am #843860smartcookieMember
Yes yes yes! Thank you Middlepath.
I never had the guts to write this myself…
I’m just thankful that this is an online forum and I can choose to read and respond to whichever posts I want. In real life it’s much more difficult dealing with such people.December 30, 2011 12:51 am at 12:51 am #843861
Thanks, kapusta and smartcookie.
Sam, don’t worry, you are always very respectful in your posts/disagreements. I like the way you can disagree with others respectfully.
smartcookie, true, in real life it would be much harder. Thank G-d it is only on an online forum.December 30, 2011 5:22 am at 5:22 am #843862
Sigh. I see nothing was done about it.
Mods, is it possible to close all the threads discussing the 8 year old girl/ spitting situation, and erase them? Please?
I really think these threads and the comments found in them are causing many of the usual, wonderful contributors in the CR to leave.December 30, 2011 5:29 am at 5:29 am #843863Sam2Participant
I respectfully disagree with MiddlePath. Those threads and discussions serve a purpose. I agree that some things in there should not have been allowed to have been said, but the discussions are necessary.December 30, 2011 6:19 am at 6:19 am #843864wanderingchanaParticipant
I also agree, MP. I took a couple weeks off because the name-calling etc. was really grating on my nerves. I don’t want to leave for good either, but I need to keep myself from getting sucked into the drama. It’s a shame that it’s allowed here at all.
There is the possibility that YW is letting this stuff through precisely because it attracts attention/generates traffic. Advertisers must not mind, even if it’s loshon hora that is bringing them hits…
<edited?> LOLDecember 30, 2011 9:15 am at 9:15 am #843865tahiniMember
Middlepath, thank you for bringing this up.December 30, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #843866the.nurseMember
I’ve been on the receiving end of insults/name calling by a poster, and what I realized (after trying to reason in a respectful way) is that you cannot change someone else. You can only work on yourself and how you respond to others.
My advice? Don’t even read those posters posts, and never respond to anything they write. Just make believe it isn’t there. That’s what I do, because when I read them, it just makes me sick.
You sound like an amazing caring person, MP, from the posts I’ve seen. Just keep on being the person you are!December 30, 2011 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #843867oomisParticipant
MP, you said it best.December 30, 2011 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #843868ZeesKiteParticipant
Close your eyes. Imagine the heated posters in a bais medrash, arguing (to put it mildly) over some piece of gemarah…December 30, 2011 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #843869
Mods, thanks for closing that thread.
Sam, that’s true, I understand that many things said do serve a purpose. I’m sorry that I don’t understand the purpose of that particular discussion, though.
wanderingchana, tahini, the.nurse, and oomis, thanks so much. It feels good to know there are others that feel this way, too.
ZK, thanks for helping.January 15, 2012 8:24 am at 8:24 am #843870hello99Participant
why have the mods been allowing insults and personal attacks recently, especially from one specific poster? Isn’t the purpose of moderation to prevent this?
It diminishes the attractiveness of the CR to everyone.
Yes, we will try to be more careful. I will no longer allow insults, and will be very strict about it. I will not edit the posts, and will instead just delete them. Thank you for bringing this up.January 15, 2012 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #843871
I’m sorry if this post is directed at meJanuary 15, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #843872chocandpatienceMember
ca: it isn’t. why do you think it is??January 15, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #843873springbok007Participant
just in case anyone has forgotten the second bais hamikdosh was destroyed due to sinas chinam.January 15, 2012 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #843874
just in case anyone has forgotten the second bais hamikdosh was destroyed due to sinas chinam.
I see. So you are trying to compare a couple of posters on an anonymous forum, who get upset while arguing about things they think are very important; to the people of the second beis hamikdash who were fighting a civil war with each other.
hee heeJanuary 15, 2012 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #843875
I’m not sure asking mods to keep insults and attacks to a minimum qualifies as sinas chinamJanuary 15, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #843876gefenParticipant
middlepath: I couldn’t agree with you more!!! (I just hope I’m not one of the people to whom you are referring.) It really upsets me when I see some of the mean spirited comments here. I am also very surprised at some of the comments and words that are allowed to be posted on this site.January 15, 2012 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #843877HaLeiViParticipant
In the olden days, before chat sites asked for you to log in, many people chose a name for each topic or thread. A coversation usually had very relavent names. In that environment when you attacked the opinion with its name it was very apersonal.
Many people came here with that attitude and it took time to learn that people associate with their screen names, especially when it is their actual name. The assocation is due to the fact that you use it consistently. It is your online identity. It can get insulted and embarrassed.
When you are face to face to a person you naturally behave more friendly than to an opinion you just read while scrolling down. To an article you tell yourself, “what a stupid thing to say or print.” To a person you say, “Yeah, but I don’t think so.”
Those of us who stuck around have built up a personality and it should be natural to speak in the face-to-face manner. But, it takes time to learn that and it can be explained patiently.
For the same reason, there are some newcomers that make many screen names and post wild content. It is called, having fun. They didn’t have a chance to realizee that people are trying to have a normal conversation and they are being a nusance. That, too, can be explained, patiently.
Thank you for reading (and modding) this, patiently.January 15, 2012 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #843878
Those of us who stuck around have built up a personality and it should be natural to speak in the face-to-face manner.
But what if your built up personality is to be rude and obnoxious?January 15, 2012 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #843879
haLeivi – I appreciate your post. I wouldn’t have put those pieces together and it is a great point, or two. I can’t speak for the OP or subsequent posts but my impression is that it isn’t the annoying posts or the differing opinions that are being addressed here in this thread. I think it is the personal attacks. You can insult my opinion vehemently and still be kind. Like in the thread about the hechshers. But when people are mean to people and mock them, regardless of their viewpont, it is not about comfort level or understanding that there are people behind the names. In these cases I think it is about insecurity and inability to understand how your thoughts are being heard.January 15, 2012 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #843880Emunas ItechaMember
MP, thank you so much for addressing this! I have also been back and forth whether or not I should post here and have taken breaks here and there to get away from it. Sometimes when you post, you never know which way its going to go. Everyone needs to make an effort to be respectful, because even though the CR is internet-based, there are real people behind the computers.January 15, 2012 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #843881Ctrl Alt DelParticipant
“to the people of the second beis hamikdash who were fighting a civil war with each other”
It was anything but civil.
“But what if your built up personality is to be rude and obnoxious?”
Well then we can have a rude and obnoxious thread. Then, anyone who chooses to be that way can feel free to post whatever they like. We can name that thread the “deleted thread” and it will of course have no posts contained in it.January 15, 2012 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #843882
I’ve been sarcastic at times which isn’t rightJanuary 15, 2012 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #843883Guter yidParticipant
I’ve also experienced it here when I sometimes say an opinion that some posters would start getting personal or sticky, what I do, either I ignore, or if I realize that’s really not my “cup of coffee” I just walk out of that thread and find a different type of coffee to blabble on..January 15, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #843884writersoulParticipant
pba: Who is to say that that particular war was the only cause of the destruction of bayit sheini?January 15, 2012 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #843885
pba: Who is to say that that particular war was the only cause of the destruction of bayit sheini?
I dunno. The gemara says that the chet was sinas chinam. We know there was a civil war going on, and jews were killing each other and raising armies against each other. It stands to reason that this was the sinaa the gemara refers to.
Do you have sources against this idea?January 16, 2012 12:20 am at 12:20 am #843886outsider4321Member
I must disagree with the OP.
One of the things i personally hate about the coffee room is that anything goes, besides straight out nivul peah. But that is what really makes it a unique place. People come here to say whats on their mind. The mods will and have posted straight out comments that bash YWN website itself and rightfully so because it is the poster opinion and not the mods. with all due respect, we dont REALLY know who the mods are, so why should we leave it up to them to decide who can post what and if its said with “up most” sensitivities what is going to stop them from decided they don’t like your opinion on something so they wont post it? Forums are not supposed to be censored, That the reason why people are here, if they a mechalel shabbos, troll, married with kids or a 7-year old kid in middle of math class. But in the coffee room behind our geshamke nick names and one liners we are all big mumcheas in whatever your life problem may be. If someone says something to offend you just move on. i mean come on we’ve all seen some of the totally wild, surprising and sometimes shocking posts that we all say ” I cant beilive the mods let that one go” but thats why we keep coming back.(and for the cool ads)
Mods if we are some how taking a vote, i say nay (and for whoever doesnt know, nay means no.)January 16, 2012 12:50 am at 12:50 am #843887HaLeiViParticipant
Popa, the Gemara comes to that conclusion after asking why the Churban happened, if we know that they were such great Tzaddikim. If the Gemara is talking about the Saducees, they wouldn’t be called Tzaddikim, only, Tzedukim. Those who were fighting were far from Tzaddikim; they burned the food storages; they didn’t heed the Chachomim. Obviously, the Gemara is talking about what part the Frum people had in it.
It is usually understood that the story of Kamtza and bar Kamtza (hey, a great screen name for your next brother) is a demonstration of the Sinas Chinam that is referred to. I guess you can read into it that they were parts of different factions, but that isn’t the implied meaning.
The way I learned that Sugya was that since the Rabbonim weren’t Moche, they must have felt intimidated, themselves. That was the problem, that even the Chachomim had a connection to politics.January 16, 2012 2:44 am at 2:44 am #843888
Mods if we are some how taking a vote, i say nay (and for whoever doesnt know, nay means no.)
Oh so that’s what my pet horse has been telling me when I tell it to go faster (Nay!)January 16, 2012 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #843889miritchkaMember
MiddlePath: you have nailed it on the head. I couldnt have said it better!January 16, 2012 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #843890TheGoqParticipant
Has anyone noticed Middlepath is missing?January 16, 2012 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #843892
Yes, Goq. I did.
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