Monsey Taxes – Election Getting Hot

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  • #596893

    Monsey Mom
    Member

    On Tuesday May 17 there will be a vote on taxes for the East Ramapo Schools. They want to pass a tax of almost 10% which is a huge amount!!! Please can everybody really go out and vote against it? Also, please remind all your friends and neighbors!

    #766944

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Have you looked at the reasoning behind the increase? What are they asking for? Is it necessary? Or do you just not want to pay more in taxes?

    #766945

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Of course I will vote no but the reasoning behind the increase is;

    a)The teachers have outrages contracts with huge hikes every year and they refuse to renegotiate like most school districts in neighboring NJ did. (BTW their contracts expire the comming year so its vitel to vote for the candidates who will not let this happen again when negotiating new contracts).

    b) The state is cutting funding so the tax payers burden goes up.

    #766946

    charliehall
    Participant

    “The state is cutting funding so the tax payers burden goes up.”

    That is a good reason to vote for the local tax increase.

    #766947

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Especialy if YOU live in the Bronx and YOU are not paying $12,000-$16,000 a year for a system that pays 75 cents for a pencil while in Walmart you get a dozen pencils for that price.

    #766948

    charliehall
    Participant

    My property taxes in the Bronx are about $5,100 a year for a nice four bedroom house. If you would merge your school district with the rest of the school districts in Rockland County, and abolished all the independent village and town governments, you, too, could have low property taxes.

    If you don’t like the property taxes, move to NYC!

    #766949

    deiyezooger
    Member

    If we dont like high property taxes we vote DOWN the outrages buget hikes.

    #766950

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Charlie,

    It would never help merging the districts. Not one of them has taxes any where in that realm. It is the unions that are keeping the expenses high. They get increases beyond what the economy as a whole is supporting and benefits that burden many generations. (Just like the democrat fiscal policies). They cannot be afforded now and they will be added to future costs.

    People are willing to pay more to live outside New York, but that does not mean they should let themselves be taxed without representation.

    BTW, were you to pay taxes, would the city income tax be more than real estate taxes? There is no city income tax in Rockland, which exists in NYC.

    #766951

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I don’t know if Monsey still has courtesy busing for private school students, but in these tough times many districts are cutting that out. That would affect most people in Monsey more than a small tax increase. Busing is expensive!

    #766952

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Had East Ramapo gotten more money (I.E. Fair Market value) for the closed school they sold, then taxes would not have needed to be raised so much.

    Backroom deals hurt, even if they are for a “good” cause. Now the results come back around.

    The Wall Street Journal has an article on the election, for those that are interested. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/92512/Spring-Valley%27s-School-Board-Election-Fight-Heats-Up-Between-Orthodox-%26-Public-School-Candidates.html

    #766954

    shlishi
    Member

    E. Ramapo did get fair market value for the sale. One shouldn’t believe every anti-semitic libel hurled at Jews.

    #766955

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    GAW,

    Shlishi is correct. In fact making that comment indicates either a lack of factual knowledge or specific identification with Perverse Ramapo.

    #766956

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I agree I have no personal knowledge, B”H. I would be happy to see proof that I am wrong, and that the school was sold for market value. I await your proof.

    #766957

    shlishi
    Member

    GAW, the burden of proof is on you to backup a claim you were the first to make over here, that was only advanced by some local antisemites. On what basis did you accept their claim that it was undersold? Especially considering that you made your claim despite now admitting that you “have no personal knowledge”.

    #766958

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    GAW,

    Suddenly there has to be proof the other way? You are alleging that the yiddin did an avala and they have to prove to YOU that they didn’t?

    1) When did you become a ba’al dovor?

    2) There is a legal concept called, Innocent until proven guilty, which you appear to ignore.

    3) Not even going to expnad on the rechilus.

    4) There was a closed bid process. The person who had been running the board at that time was far from a friend of the chasidim.

    5) There were a lot of limitations to who could even purchase the property and what tt could be used for, which seriously reduced themarketability. It could not be used for development. It had to be a not for profit and I believe it had to remain a school. There was thus a very limited market and valuations that the Perverse are using would be for developable land. And they are against developing anyway, so it would have a much decreased market.

    #766959

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    SJS,

    Busing is mandated. In fact, busing is mandated for all school children in NYS. Municipalities that have populations greater than 100,000 can modify who would get busing based on distance.

    The WSJ article specifically notes that busing is mandated. Not courtesy.

    It is the anti-yeshiva crowd at the Urinal News that always tries to argue that he yeshiva students should not be eligible for busing because of sepration of Church and State.

    of course that is an incorrect argument because busing is not religious services or instruction at all and is a separate mandate for students.

    #766960

    charliehall
    Participant

    “It would never help merging the districts. Not one of them has taxes any where in that realm.”

    There are HUGE savings that can be gained from having larger schools in larger districts — less administrative overhead, larger class sizes, more efficient programs for special needs children, and many others.

    Compare the large county suburban school districts in Maryland and Virginia to the craziness in New York and you will see what I mean.

    ” It is the unions that are keeping the expenses high.”

    We have unionized schools in New York City, too.

    In fact, the Catholic schools in the area are unionized! Teachers are paid a fair salary on time. When will the Jewish schools get the hint?

    “would the city income tax be more than real estate taxes?”

    No. The city income tax is pretty small. We did the comparison and concluded that we still save thousands every year by paying two city income taxes plus the city property tax than we would pay in just the property tax in the suburbs — and we both have good incomes.

    “yeshiva students should not be eligible for busing because of sepration of Church and State”

    The New York State Constitution provides that the ONLY aid that the government can give religious schools is transportation.

    #766961

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Shlishi:

    You are actually the first to tell me that the sale was “fair”. Since I really don’t know anything about it, I thought you could tell me more. nishtdayngesheft actually provided some useful information (points 4 & 5), which I assume he knows first hand (lives in the area, knows those who are involved, etc.). I trust him more than some “unknown sources”.

    P.S. From what I had heard, the purpose of the board was to allocate more resources to Yeshivos instead of public school children (correct me if I am wrong). As such, they would just be fulfilling their mandate by selling the property in question at a low cost to the Yeshiva. All I am responding was that the low price of the sale causes higher taxes. If the low price of the sale was due to other reasons (as NDG claims), then the low sale price still caused higher taxes, but was unintentional.

    P.P.S. There is no requirement to have segregated bussing. If the district wanted to save money via SJS’s idea, they could cut the bussing in half (possibly). Also the article mentions something regarding bussing to out of town districts, which is not required.

    #766962

    shlishi
    Member

    gavra:

    Why are you still asserting without evidence that the sale was a “low price”, other than accepting at face value the antisemites claim? No one else advanced this canard. You first asserted here it was not the “fair market value”.

    #766963

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    To all: I just read in “The Forward” (Nice picture of a board member in a public school teaching) that the sale of the school did not go through; Please disregard my comments.

    Instead, I will just suggest to those in the area: Go out and vote against the increase if you feel it is unfair. Don’t assume since the area is Jewish, etc. that it will not be passed (once again, with no actual knowledge of the situation).

    #766964

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    GAW,

    So you read it in the Forward?? Therein lies the explanation for your misunderstanding.

    The Forward’s is a tax-exempt entity (No I do not know why) whose raison-detre seems at complete odds with its stated purpose as reported on its 990. Besides that their pieces are full documented fallacies.

    #766965

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I was unaware (until now) that it was in the state constitution. In NJ, a few districts have done this or threatened to do this to pass the budget.

    Here is what I found on the NY website:

    https://stateaid.nysed.gov/trans/nonpublic.htm

    The mileage marker is 2 miles or greater. When I lived in Monsey, I got busing to school that was less than a mile. They could raise the requirements to match the state mandate.

    That’s not to say voting for a budget increase is the right thing to do. I just don’t think this call for everyone enmasse to vote down the budget makes sense.

    #766966

    cantoresq
    Member

    “The mileage marker is 2 miles or greater. When I lived in Monsey, I got busing to school that was less than a mile. They could raise the requirements to match the state mandate.”

    Imagine the scene at Maple & 306 every morning as hundreds of kids try to cross the street to get to school on foot, while the carpools and other drivers try to get across as well. It’s a recipe for children to get run over.

    #766967

    charliehall
    Participant

    “As such, they would just be fulfilling their mandate by selling the property in question at a low cost to the Yeshiva”

    Actually, that is not true. The fiduciary responsibility of a school board is to the school system, not to the public as a whole. A school board that disposes of property at too low a price could be sued.

    #766968

    charliehall
    Participant

    “I was unaware (until now) that it was in the state constitution.”

    *Permission* to provide transportation for private school students is in the NY State Constitution. A *mandate* for such is in the Education Law, which could be repealed at any time.

    #766969

    charliehall
    Participant

    “It’s a recipe for children to get run over. “

    As is the lack of sidewalks.

    #766971

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “As is the lack of sidewalks.”

    What lack of sidewalks?

    What are you saying?

    What does this have to do with school board elections?

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