More Torah being Learned than ever, yet more Troubles

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    Thanks to modern technology, namely the Internet(Yes, Internet), there’s so much Torah content available via apps and websites. As a result of these innovations, baalei batim across the religious spectrum are learning every day, moreso than the previous generations, yet there are more troubles facing Jews. Why is this so?


    Torah learning is only one of the mitzvas. The state of the Jews is a function of Jews’ overall dveikut to Hashem.


    More trouble than when? The time of the Churban? The time of the Crusades? The Inquisition? Tach v’Tat? The Holocaust?

    Don’t get me wrong – there are serious issues facing Jews around the world. But it’s also important to keep a sense of perspective – and a sense of Jewish history.

    an Israeli Yid


    Off the top of my head:

    1. Although learning torah is the most important, it’s not the only thing.
    2. Perhaps the quantity of torah is higher (and even that’s a maybe) but I doubt the quality is.
    3. Is this really more troubles. We’ve had some really bad years in the past.


    While I agree that the internet should be a catalyst for Harbatzas HaTorah, the fact is that it is not being utilized much.

    Also, I seriously doubt that there much Torah today compared to the recent past.

    Nearly every yeshiva I know (Admittedly, only a handful.) has lowered their standards since the last decade. Roshei Yeshiva openly encourage their bochurim that six hours a day is full time learner.

    Baal Habattim looking up practical halacha online is not the Limud HaTorah that guarantees our protection. Even women are obligated to know practical halacha.

    Many in-person shiurim and kollelim never restarted after covid. I doubt there is more daily learning today than a generation ago. It is much less common for people to have an uninterrupted hour on their schedule.

    In sum, available content does not make more Torah actually being Learned.


    Need more Torah lishma.


    I’m not sure if this is a troll question or not so I won’t answer it than to say thanks to modern technology, namely the Internet(Yes, Internet), there’s so much easy to do averos available. As a result of these innovations, people across the religious spectrum are doing averos every day, more so than the previous generations, is there a question why there may be more troubles facing Jews?


    Famous yesid from the baalei mussar-where there’s more kedusha, there’s more tumah.


    We earn credits for all mitzvos. We don’t get to tell HKBH how to apply the credit.


    Since I am not a Navi, I cannot know for sure how to answer this question.
    But I do believe that I can make some good guesses that might be true.

    We have lots of Torah being learned, but we also have very little unity.

    Midrash Tanchuma, Parshat Nitzabim, end of chapter 1:
    “The Jews will not be redeemed until they unite as one … ”

    We have lots of Torah being learned, but we also have very little judging each other favorably.

    We have lots of Torah being learned, but we also have lots of speaking Lashon HaRa, lots of listening to Lashon HaRa, and lots of believing Lashon HaRa — all are forbidden by the Torah.

    We have lots of Torah being learned, but we also have lots of money being spent on blatant gashmius. Around 2 or 3 three years ago, I went into a kosher store to get empty boxes.
    This store is in a very Chareidi area. Almost all of the customers are Orthodox Jews.
    I discovered that just ONE bottle of kosher liquor was selling for up to $500.

    Even with all our successful people, there are still people who are left-behind and forgotten.

    We have lots of Torah being learned, but we also have lots of people who either don’t care about anyone except themselves, or don’t care about anyone except themselves and their own children and grandchildren.

    I could continue, but think that I have said enough.

    Yes, it was odd to see it follow a complaint that we don’t judge others favorably. 


    5 towner

    1. the quality of learning is very weak just because there are 500 apps for daf yomi how many people are reviewing the daf, are they at least learning with Rashi, Tosfos 2. even with out modern technology there are many English seforim that help guide on halacha. Now with that said do you really think more people know Halacha or Gemarah because there is technology. 3. people back then learnt bemesires nefesh nowadays we learn with a cup of coffee and cake and they put in the work needed to understand 4. who told you there are more troubles now than there was back then you think things were so great during the middle ages or the programs 5. you think all of a sudden because you learn a bit your entitled for easy life a)everyone has nisyonos either for punishments or to increase their reward in the next word b) just because you did the daf doesn’t excuse the myriad aviros done or mitzvos with lack of kavvanah 6. also the concept of thinking we were better than our predecessors is very weak.


    More trouble today than the holocaust? Than the pogroms? Than Tach V’Tat? Than expulsions? Than blood libels? Than the Crusades?

    And with the more learning today, do we have anywhere near as much as Yiras Shamayim as our grandfathers and grandmothers and great grandfathers and great great grandfathers etc. in Europe and the Middle East had? Do we have as much Emuna Peshuta as they had? Do we have as much Emunas Chachamim as they had?


    @OP, Do yourself a favor and log off and speak to a holocaust survivor, they are a few still around, after you speak to them come back and till me if we have problems.


    R Salanter used to say that when someone is not paying attention while learning in Lita, it leads to a professor in Paris going OTD. So, it makes sense to look at quality of learning.

    First, a simple question of measuring that quality. It was always an issue. During BM2, first attempt at public education was for fathers to teach and that did not have consistent quality (2nd to go to Yerushalaim had logistics problems), 3rd – to teach teenagers in regional centers did not work because teenagers did not listen [quality of teachers, I presume, as it was not an issue in Yerushalaim], what worked – teaching small kids locally, maybe not high quality but giving them information before they are capable of rebelling.

    Som with early yeshivos – I presume Netziv was able to know and lead his 400 students. But in our days, with so many yeshivos, the standards are uneven and are known word-of-mouth among locals. We here inCR are sometimes shocked that some of us are bakiim in certain things and have
    no idea of others. We need some sort of TSAT, Torah SAT with scores in different areas. It is OK to have 800 on tosfos, but 0 on chassidus. This score will accurately describe the student and the school, and then we can start thinking on what can be improved. The fact that we do not have such measurements tells something about the state of learning.


    Anisraelyid there are more troubles today in America than there have been since WWII and even then the fighting was done overseas with the exception of Hawaii and Alaska. There’s more frumkeit and Torah today in America than there has ever been. But also the average baal balei batim have more learning in their lives than there has been in a very long time.


    > fighting was done overseas

    except many of us or our families were “overseas”.

    While we see a lot of learning, we may be fooling ourselves. When we look at problem of pre-war communities, we see a lot of movement form religion. Nowadays, we might not see it – because some of those who moved away are not even associated with us … During the time of crisis like now, we see some of them – some coming to join, others, R’L – to oppose ..


    i dont understand the basis of the question:
    אמר רבא רבותא למבעי בעיי בשני דרב יהודה כולי תנויי בנזיקין ואנן קא מתנינן טובא בעוקצין וכי הוה מטי רב יהודה אשה שכובשת ירק בקדירה ואמרי לה זיתים שכבשן בטרפיהן טהורים אמר הויות דרב ושמואל קא חזינא הכא ואנן קא מתנינן בעוקצין תלת סרי מתיבתא ורב יהודה שליף מסאני ואתא מטרא ואנן צוחינן וליכא דמשגח בן אלא הקב”ה ליבא בעי דכתיב (שמואל א טז, ז) וה’ יראה ללבב
    (Sanhedrin 106b)
    anyway we cant know reasons for everything
    The Talmud paints a picture of G‑d revealing to Moses every generation and its teachers. Moses sees the greatness of Rabbi Akiva and his colleagues. Then he sees how Rabbi Akiva screams “Shema Yisrael” as the Romans flay him alive with metal combs. Moses protests, “This is Torah and this is its reward?!”

    G‑d’s retort? “Quiet! This is what I have decided.”


    Dear Lake,

    You are not backing up your opinion at all. I know of too many Baal Habatim that learn less than their wives.


    Dear Sechel,

    So obviously it’s a good question as Hashem did not give an answer.

    The Gemara you brought is about receiving gifts from above (rain). That is different than being protect from danger. As the Study of the Torah is the most significant protection we still have.


    one answer might be that with all the torah learning, torah scholars often put people to shame in public. it’s not just the learning, it’s the practice. just a thought


    n0mesorah hidden around the world are doing Daf Hayomi Dav Hashvua Amud Yomi MB Yomi Mishna Yoma. Every shul has series of different shiurei Torah. You can find a Shiur on any Daf of Gemara online with a multitude of Rabbeim to choose from. Torah Anytime has classes on every topic.


    The gemara in Taanis 25B explains:

    During a draught, Rabbi Eliezer davened 24 brochos from the amud and no rain fell.
    Rabbi Akiva just said, “Our father, our king: we have no king except for you. For your sake, have mercy on us,” and rain fell.
    People were saying negative things about Rabbi Eliezer.
    A voice came out of heaven and said, “It’s not because Rabbi Akiva is greater than Rabbi Eliezer; it’s because Rabbi Akiva is maavir al midosav while Rabbi Eliezer is not.”


    Furthermore, the gemara in Taanis 24 quotes the following story but I’m not sure where the main gemara is. Anyway:

    Rav Yehuda, during a draught, would simply take off his shoe and rain would fall; but, we (Rabbah’s generation) scream all day to Hashem and no rain falls. And it’s not because learning was better in Rav Yehuda’s generation. It’s much stronger now. Rather, why was Rav Yehuda answered but we’re not? Because they were moser nefesh and we’re not.


    from the chazon ish (who’s yartzeit is today) on how to treat todays kofrim r”l
    חזון איש יורה דעה סימן ב אות טז
    ונראה דאין דין מורידין אלא בזמן שהשגחתו יתברך גלויה כמו בזמן שהיו נסים מצויים ומשמש בת קול, וצדיקי הדור תחת השגחה
    פרטית הנראית לעין כל, והכופרין אז הוא בנליזות מיוחדת בהטיית היצר לתאוות והפקרות, ואז היה ביעור רשעים גדרו של עולם
    שהכל ידעו כי הדחת הדור מביא פורעניות לעולם ומביא דבר וחרב ורעב בעולם. אבל בזמן ההעלם שנכרתה האמונה מן דלת העם
    אין במעשה הורדה גדר הפרצה אלא הוספת הפרצה שיהיה בעיניהם כמעשה השחתה ואלמות חס ושלום וכיון שכל עצמנו לתקן
    אין הדין נוהג בשעה שאין בו תיקון ועלינו להחזירם בעבותות אהבה ולהעמידם בקרן אורה במה שידינו מגעת”.
    חזון איש יורה דעה סימן ב סעיף קטן כח
    “ובהגהות מיימוניות פרק ו מהלכות דעות כתב דאין רשאין לשנאתו אלא אחר שאינו מקבל תוכחה ובסוף ספר אהבת חסד כתב
    בשם הגר”י מולין דמצוה לאהוב את הרשעים מהאי טעמא והביא כן מתשובת מהר”ם לובלין כי אצלנו הוא קדם תוכחה שאין
    אנו יודעין להוכיח, ודיינינן להו כאנוסין ולכן אי אפשר לנו לדון בזה לפטור מן היבום, וכן לענין שאר הלכות”.


    Dear Jay,

    You are conflating merits that bring about salvation, with Torah study that protects from danger.


    Dear Lake,

    “n0mesorah hidden around the world are doing Daf Hayomi Dav Hashvua Amud Yomi MB Yomi Mishna Yoma. Every shul has series of different shiurei Torah. You can find a Shiur on any Daf of Gemara online with a multitude of Rabbeim to choose from. Torah Anytime has classes on every topic.”

    How many of the participants in these wonderful daily programs are baal habatim? Is it more than half?

    I wish every shul had even one daily shiur.

    Available shiurim does not make more Torah Study. I can show you Roshei Yeshivah giving brilliant Shiurim or basic shiurim to small crowds.

    I wonder what percentage of a great resource like Torah Anytime is worthy of being used as Torah Study that wards off danger.


    Because of the rampant corruption in the cult. Rabbis can be bought and sold. Luxury real estate is torah nothing else

    1 million apartments are being warehoused because of greedy corrupt landlords who run the cult


    n0 > I know of too many Baal Habatim that learn less than their wives.

    And I know may baalos batim who learn even more than their husbands!

    My kos is hetzi-maleh


    We learn go though the Torah, but does the Torah go though us?

    Does the Torah we learn penetrate our minds and make us better people?


    My Ruv spoke about this on Shabbos. He said the reason for all these tsaros are men using smartphones (even with a filter) & women’s lack of tsnius.
    He also warned about “Chanukah parties” where often men & women end up socializing in close quarters which goes against Halacha.

    Sam Klein

    In today’s generation we are living a life of enjoying pleasure anytime and going after our desires-not our needs- the instant we want to without the power to hold ourselves back and remind ourselves to hold ourselves back from running after every desire and pleasure and that’s besides for the direct sin from the Torah in shema we say every day “vlo sasuru……”


    Kuvult, what is going on in your community – men having such big problems with inappropriate material on the phones, but seemingly same men getting great middos from their learning, no problems with shabbos and geneiva, etc. How is the phone such a big nisayon while they conquered all others? This is very confusing as I usually see people succeeding or failing in multiple related categories. Please clarify.


    “yet there are more troubles facing Jews. Why is this so?”
    Anyone who claim to know hashem chesbonos is either a apikorius or a pyc job or some combo of both.
    You really want to know? find a quick way to the olam haemes and all your questions will be answered, I prefer not to question der aybister and live a peaceful life.

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