Mourning During the 3 Weeks, Do we Really Mean it?

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  • #591920
    yosr
    Member

    Once again we are working up those tears, but do we really mean it?

    Is there anyone out there that really wants the Mikdash? I mean is finding some nook in the ally way of Jerusalem to eat the Pesach, really better than having Seder at home?

    Is there anyone that really wants to live with all Am Yisrael as a holy nation in Eretz Yisrael? I mean come on, I have already built up that billion dollar shul!

    Is there really anyone that really wants a Malchut that will take away that Democratic choice we are all used to?

    EDITED

    #882608
    WIY
    Member

    There are many people that want Moshiach and many people who do not. It is a big challenge to honestly want Moshiach in this generation. Before you judge others make sure you really want Moshiach yourself because you may not want it either. If you do want Moshiach then keep doing the right things that will hasten his arrival. Posting what you did above is pointless and wont help anybody.

    #882609
    tzippi
    Member

    I’ve heard a lot of these kinds of speeches: do we really want Mashiach or are we caught up in our new car/kitchen/custom sheitel/ad nauseum and like life just the way it is.

    I tune out right away! There are plenty of people who are struggling, who live every day with the frustrating recognition that we are living in a time of hester panim, and who would gladly welcome Moshiach and a world as outlined in the second part of Aleinu.

    #882610
    WIY
    Member

    tzippi:

    You said: There are plenty of people who are struggling, who live every day with the frustrating recognition that we are living in a time of hester panim, and who would gladly welcome Moshiach and a world as outlined in the second part of Aleinu.

    Thats the wrong Hashkofa. Wanting Moshiach because your life is miserable is not what Hashem wants from us. We should only want Moshiach based on the second part of Aleinu “despite” what our personal lives are like.

    #882611
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Thats the wrong Hashkofa.

    Mitoch shelo lishma, ba lishma.

    The Wolf

    #882612

    I was told by my Rosh Yeshivah that really a person shouldn’t want Moshiach for himself as that would make him not able to be mekayem mitvos anymore or be able to get schar for limud hatorah.

    Instead a person should want moshiach because the klal needs it and that as long as we are in galus the shechinah is suffering.

    So even someone who is living comfortably and enjoyably can still want moshiach for the sake of the shechinah and klal yisroel.

    #882613
    laguy
    Member

    Whether you want Mashiach or not is truly something you have to deal with for yourself. Maybe these 3 weeks are meant as a time for introspection. A time for us to actively think about how we relate to one another and to Hashem and what he really wants from us.

    #882614
    rt
    Participant

    as I have heard Rav Shlomo Brevda say, the reason for a lack of feeling for the need of Moshiach is because we can’t even conceive of what we’re missing; we don’t know what a tremendous taanug it is being misdavek b’ziv haShechina at all much less 24/7. But think a moment-a world without sickness, hunger, war, lacking nothing, an olam malei daya es H-shem- sounds like something we should all desire & daven for. bimhaira byamainu

    #882615

    I see no reason why Hashem should give us back the ??? ?????. Hashem goes to one person sitting in this corner, he has beautiful children he already bought his house he has a car, he’s so happy hes not grieving over my ??? ????? thats 1 less person for my ??? ?????. The next person sitting at this corner of the world has beautiful children he loves to learn & has a rich Father-in-law supporting him he’s so happy hes not grieving over my ??? ????? thats 1 less person for my ??? ?????. what is Hashem saying to his Malachim? just look at my children down there look how happy they are i gave them everything cars, planes, computers, Electricity & phones Etc… forget if they are Makir Tov (Grateful) for everything i give them that is not today’s lesson, Let me leave my ??? ????? up in heaven with me when my children cry for it i will give it back to them, but right now look how happy they are. A perfect Mashal would be if a Principal in a Cheder took away a ball from a boy, because he was hitting people with it. If he went to the Principal & said i’m sorry i just want to have fun i won’t hit anyone with it. I give you my word he will give him his ball back. Do you think the Principal needs it? He already has a whole basket sitting in his office. Hashem is waiting for Klal Yisroel to wake up & do Teshuva, the gates of teshuva are never closed, the worst kings of Klal Yisroel did teshuva at the end of their lives, Achav & Menashe look at them, after 30 years of avoda zora Menashe cried out all the way from his heart for teshuva from Hashem & Hashem accepted it WHY? Because he really meant it. Hashem is waiting for Klal Yisroel to do Teshuva. Hashem is waiting for the day to put his presence back in this world & bring us back the Bais Hamikdosh but we just don’t seem to be ready.

    #882616
    Be Happy
    Participant

    I went to one of the saddest shivas last night. There were 10 children sitting shiva for a father who rejected them, for a father who never cared for them, for a father who kept their mother chained for about 15 years refusing to give her a get…

    It really got me thinking about us, towards the Eibishter especially now in the 3 weeks.

    We know Hashem loves us, He wants us, He cares for us, He is waiting for us to make a move. What is stopping us??

    #882617
    tzippi
    Member

    I didn’t realize that mourning hester panim is hashkafically wrong. I didn’t mean that I want Mashiach because of our leaky roof, bills, etc. Just that I don’t get where all these speeches are coming from.

    #882618
    WIY
    Member

    tzipi:

    Theres nothing wrong with mourning hester ponim. In fact that is correct. All I meant is that wanting Moshiach because “my life sucks” is not the right Hashkofa. We shouldnt want Moshiach because it will improve our economic situation…

    What we mourn is the fact that we and the shechina are in golus and the fact that we cant be together and have the closeness with Hashem that we formerly had when there was a Bais Hamikdash.

    The way to really show you want Moshiach is to live your life as though Moshiach were already here.

    #882619
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    yosr:

    wow! I came to this thread to write something cynical but I’ll just agree with you

    #882620
    yosr
    Member

    Now that this has been applied to Eretz Yisrael, maybe now we should work on going to the only place the Mikdash is attainable.

    #882622
    rt
    Participant

    yosr- the only problem with your conclusion is that it’s ossur to do

    #882623
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Re: Mourning the 3 weeks/9 days. Rav David Orlofsky gave a lecture a few years ago in NY during the 3 weeks (it may be online somewhere) and part of his discussion was “how serious are we about mourning the churban”. He said the following tongue in cheek, but it is so true. How much does the aveilus of the three weeks really mean to us when in summer camps on the 10th of Av kids are lined up at the edge of the pool counting down to chatzos or the camp band sets up after breakfast, and then after its big countdown to chatzos starts a concert. Exactly what lesson is learned, other than “its only 3 weeks, we’ll have to survive on sushi and pareve chulent thursday nights”. To paraphrase Rabbi Orlofsky we are basicly saying, hurray, the embers are dying out, lets go have some fun.

    #882624
    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    This topic is an extremely important topic, as we know it is for the Shechina we mourn. We all know how stringent the Halachos of mourning is, to alleviate pain from the Neshama. Thousands of Minhagim are done to pertain to the Kavod of the Niftar. Kal Vachomer when we mourn for the Schechina’s home, how we should mourn. I dedicated a thread for the Halachos and Minhagim of mourning for the Beis Hamikdash year-round (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/zecher-lachurban). It would be appropriate to discuss (and do) these Halachos on such sad days.

    #882625
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    BUMP

    May Moshiach come first!

    #882626
    pcoz
    Member

    read books about the holocaust

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