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When will Brooklyn have a Carlebach Minyan?
Everyone there, ranging from Chassidim to Conservative Jews, was swaying and singing together, some dancing, and all seemed totally absorbed and entranced. Im sure naysayers will criticize, but everyone there looked like they were on a uniquely high spiritual level.
Yehuda Green was Amazing!
im a naysayer. rosh hashanah and selichos are not about being entranced. your supposed to say sorry for your miserable failings. dalim vireikim isnt a joke.
Nebach
If Mr. Green brought about such achdus among Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionists Jews, as AZOI.IS indicated, all while entertaining them at the same time, who is to complain?
AZOI.IS- you are so right !!
And to “toi” please look at tenach and the story of dovid hamelech and his wife michal….”vedovid hojo mekarker…” ‘Vedai lechakima beremiza!”
The NY Jets also bring about achdus.
Achdus proves nothing as quite often you find the most achdus when people are doing an aveira as the yetzer hara makes achdus so more people should sin together. Additionally you find a concept that enemies make peace when they have a common enemy to defeat so achdus in no way proves anything. Theres goo dachdus and bad achdus and I am not saying this is bad but just explaining that achdus means nothing in and of itself.
Spiritual feelings prove nothing as well. Im sure Christians Buddists… say they have spiritual feelings when they do their “mitzvos” so again dont judge by the feelings.
Selichos is not about being lively it is not a “feel good” event.
You are supposed to feel low and recognize that you are steeped in aveiros.
The feel good is reserved for Succos and yommim tovim in general. Selichos is not an upbeat event. The fact that so many people went just shows us how many people are so out of touch of what Selichos is all about.
All those people need to “Asei lecha Rav” they need to find a true Rav who can guide them (not Yehuda Green as he is not a Rav at all as opposed to Carlebach who at least was a big talmid chacham).
Truly a wasted opportunity for all who went but more than that it fed them wrong Hashkafos and fooled them into thinking they did something good and were mekayim Selichos the way it was supposed to be.
WIY- i am not going to debate what selichos is all about but I am going to tell you that “achdus” is indeed a most important thing in Klal Yisroel. You will find many instances where achdus was the reason for sucees . See matan torah (Vajichan ho-om tachas ho-hor) and, lo aleinu, the opposite too (dor haflogoh). The point is that to bring Jews together in a mitzvah (you are not seriously going to say that the selichos were not a mitzvah?) is in itself a major reason to do it. So, regardless of your thoughts on selichos, the achdus aspect was very important.
Rabbiofberlin
Like I said before achdus in and of itself is worthless unless it is for a good cause. Saying slichos in such a manner with music and dancing is a very misguided cause and likely sinful due to the taaruvos, there isnt even a mechitzah! You want to tell me none of the guys and girls looked at each other and had bad thoughts?
Achdus, REGARDLESS of the cause, is a good thing. If it isn’t necessarily for a great cause, that does not take away from the fact that many Jews got together and did something that they all felt connected to, in a positive way. We have so little achdus, unfortunately, that we CANNOT be picky about what to get together for and what we can’t. Thinking that achdus is only worthwhile for something YOU feel is good defeats the whole point of achdus! Because then, you will only strive for it when it is something you happen to think is right, which is the OPPOSITE of what achdus is all about. Real achdus is getting together with people, regardless of your personal opinion.
Also, it is not for anyone to decide what manner of saying prayers is considered right or wrong. Only G-d knows who is sincere and who isn’t. And if someone feels closer to G-d through song and dance rather than to cry, then that is what he should be doing. If that isn’t how you feel selichos should be said, don’t do it that way. Don’t diminish the level of holiness that other people may have achieved in a way that they feel elevated with.
Achdus, REGARDLESS of the cause, is a good thing.
Really? If we would, b’achdus, have a big party with mixed dancing and pritzus’dik people — all b’achdus — it would be “a good thing”?
Okay, I won’t stop you from attending Congregation Emanu-El.
Hm.. now that you mentioned it, I think I’ll pass up the opportunity to be “swaying and singing together, some dancing” by Selichos. I think I’ll opt for a Jewish shul, humbly and contritely beg HaShem for Selichah and Kapara. With Achdus. And tears.
AZOI.IS
Dont settle for cheap thrills. Get an Artscroll interlinear Selichos so you KNOW what you are saying. If you read the words and try to connect with them with honesty and sincerity you will have a true spiritual experience that will be in line with what Selichos was meant for.
Is it so clear that the purpose of Slichos is to feel low and full of sin? I could definitely hear a claim that a Slichos which inspires feelings of wanting to be better in the future, regardless of how many sins were done in the past, is a successful one.
Right you are. He doesn’t need part time helpers. Or detractors, or imitators.
If ALL of Klal Yisroel is shivering in awe and trepidation for the ???? ???? and one individual chooses to go elsewhere for “uplifting swaying and dancing” that is his own choice. To publicly announce and proclaim it on a “Torah” oriented site and then claim that all of Klal Yisroel have a ‘”Holier than Thou” attitude’ toward them?!? HaShem is our judge too.
Why choose a site as hallowed as the YESHIVA WORLD to mitigate and lessen the effect and atmosphere of ???? ????? Isn’t that what ???? ?????? are all about???
I’l leave to others to debate what selichos are for, how they should be said and what one should feel. I do, however, want to rebut a true slander -motzi shem ra-by WIY, when he says that
1)there was no mechitza in that shul- absolutely not true -this is an orthodox shul and men and women were separated during the tefillos with the appropriate mechitza. (You may want to pray in a shul where the women are cooped up in a different room but R”moshe zz’l already took care of that).
2) Secondly – to assert that there was “taaruvos’- how ? Certainly, during the selichos there was no taaruvos.
3) “none of they guys and girls looked at each other and had bad thoughts”. Now you can read minds? Only one being in the world can see in our hearts and minds and that is HKBH. For everyone else , it is “motzi shem ra”.
So,please, you are welcome to run your life as you wish but allow everyone to find his/her derech to HKBH in his/her way.
Azoi iz
With all due respect I dont buy this whole “im not on the madreiga” garbage. This is the excuse people have been using the last decade or W to little by little throw away yiddishkeit and to warp it into some grotesque thing that it isnt. The kids who want to text on Shabbos will say they arent ont he Madreiga to keep “whole” Shabbos and the people who dont want to go to minyan will say they arent on the madreiga to go to minyan….people have to stop with the pathetic excuses. Why do we pretend that things are so different if you look back not so long ago everyone was happy keeping the Torah the way it always was kept. Suddenly the last few decades every other day theres a new mishegas that further waters down Yiddishkeit.
Stop telling yourself you cant and you will realize that you can. Its nothing personal but I am just really bothered that frum adults who would and should ordinarily be in a regular shul saying slichos like a mentsch are taking part in some new age hippy version of Selichos with no mechitzah and girls all over the room.
There are maybe 20-30 people who “belong” there the rest had no business being there. Selichos isnt for entertainment.
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