September 9, 2012 9:15 am at 9:15 am #604819
When will Brooklyn have a Carlebach Minyan?
Everyone there, ranging from Chassidim to Conservative Jews, was swaying and singing together, some dancing, and all seemed totally absorbed and entranced. Im sure naysayers will criticize, but everyone there looked like they were on a uniquely high spiritual level.
Yehuda Green was Amazing!September 9, 2012 11:00 am at 11:00 am #896004ToiParticipant
im a naysayer. rosh hashanah and selichos are not about being entranced. your supposed to say sorry for your miserable failings. dalim vireikim isnt a joke.September 9, 2012 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #896005
NebachSeptember 9, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #896006
Do I detect a Holier than Thou attitude?
Im sure that wherever anyone here chose to go to Slichos, without exception, there are others who feel where they went was on an even higher spiritual plane.
Lets not go there. Are we using spiritual yardsticks? Wonderful tool to bring about Achdus.
Also, people go to a lot of places, for a lot of reasons, totally unknown to others. We arent in the Nevuah category, or having the ability to be Bochen Levavos, are we?
Lets leave the judging to G-d.September 9, 2012 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #896007icedMember
If Mr. Green brought about such achdus among Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionists Jews, as AZOI.IS indicated, all while entertaining them at the same time, who is to complain?September 9, 2012 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #896008
AZOI.IS- you are so right !!
And to “toi” please look at tenach and the story of dovid hamelech and his wife michal….”vedovid hojo mekarker…” ‘Vedai lechakima beremiza!”September 9, 2012 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #896009midwesternerParticipant
The NY Jets also bring about achdus.September 9, 2012 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #896010
The bulk of the crowd was clearly Orthodox.
Those who feel it was a Nebach, might want to reconsider, being that many on the edge, whether outwardly or inwardly, were definitely inspired to go such places, rather than that despicable organization called F
s. The atmosphere was electrifying.
The one size fits all approach to Yiddishkeit is sending our youth running, as many threads here clearly shows. It works for many, but certainly not for all.September 9, 2012 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #896011
Achdus proves nothing as quite often you find the most achdus when people are doing an aveira as the yetzer hara makes achdus so more people should sin together. Additionally you find a concept that enemies make peace when they have a common enemy to defeat so achdus in no way proves anything. Theres goo dachdus and bad achdus and I am not saying this is bad but just explaining that achdus means nothing in and of itself.
Spiritual feelings prove nothing as well. Im sure Christians Buddists… say they have spiritual feelings when they do their “mitzvos” so again dont judge by the feelings.
Selichos is not about being lively it is not a “feel good” event.
You are supposed to feel low and recognize that you are steeped in aveiros.
The feel good is reserved for Succos and yommim tovim in general. Selichos is not an upbeat event. The fact that so many people went just shows us how many people are so out of touch of what Selichos is all about.
All those people need to “Asei lecha Rav” they need to find a true Rav who can guide them (not Yehuda Green as he is not a Rav at all as opposed to Carlebach who at least was a big talmid chacham).
Truly a wasted opportunity for all who went but more than that it fed them wrong Hashkafos and fooled them into thinking they did something good and were mekayim Selichos the way it was supposed to be.September 9, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #896012
WIY- i am not going to debate what selichos is all about but I am going to tell you that “achdus” is indeed a most important thing in Klal Yisroel. You will find many instances where achdus was the reason for sucees . See matan torah (Vajichan ho-om tachas ho-hor) and, lo aleinu, the opposite too (dor haflogoh). The point is that to bring Jews together in a mitzvah (you are not seriously going to say that the selichos were not a mitzvah?) is in itself a major reason to do it. So, regardless of your thoughts on selichos, the achdus aspect was very important.September 9, 2012 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #896013
Like I said before achdus in and of itself is worthless unless it is for a good cause. Saying slichos in such a manner with music and dancing is a very misguided cause and likely sinful due to the taaruvos, there isnt even a mechitzah! You want to tell me none of the guys and girls looked at each other and had bad thoughts?September 9, 2012 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #896014MiddlePathParticipant
Achdus, REGARDLESS of the cause, is a good thing. If it isn’t necessarily for a great cause, that does not take away from the fact that many Jews got together and did something that they all felt connected to, in a positive way. We have so little achdus, unfortunately, that we CANNOT be picky about what to get together for and what we can’t. Thinking that achdus is only worthwhile for something YOU feel is good defeats the whole point of achdus! Because then, you will only strive for it when it is something you happen to think is right, which is the OPPOSITE of what achdus is all about. Real achdus is getting together with people, regardless of your personal opinion.
Also, it is not for anyone to decide what manner of saying prayers is considered right or wrong. Only G-d knows who is sincere and who isn’t. And if someone feels closer to G-d through song and dance rather than to cry, then that is what he should be doing. If that isn’t how you feel selichos should be said, don’t do it that way. Don’t diminish the level of holiness that other people may have achieved in a way that they feel elevated with.September 9, 2012 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #896015sheinMember
Achdus, REGARDLESS of the cause, is a good thing.
Really? If we would, b’achdus, have a big party with mixed dancing and pritzus’dik people — all b’achdus — it would be “a good thing”?September 9, 2012 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #896017
“Really? If we would, b’achdus, have a big party with mixed dancing and pritzus’dik people — all b’achdus — it would be “a good thing”?
Mixed dancing or Pritzus at the Selichos? Someone’s definitely having issues with their mental faculties.
The day we all decide which Shuls are acceptable, is NOT the day Moshiach will come, I assure you. Not SHEIN in the eyes of G-d, shein!September 9, 2012 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #896018sheinMember
Okay, I won’t stop you from attending Congregation Emanu-El.September 9, 2012 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #896019
shein, perhaps the oilem ought to put everything you do and say and everywhere you go under a magnifying glass….you might not come out like the clear winner and greatest Tzadik in everyones eyes….
Lets agree to be less critical and leave it to Hashem! Judgement time is soon.September 10, 2012 12:08 am at 12:08 am #896020Eizena KupMember
Hm.. now that you mentioned it, I think I’ll pass up the opportunity to be “swaying and singing together, some dancing” by Selichos. I think I’ll opt for a Jewish shul, humbly and contritely beg HaShem for Selichah and Kapara. With Achdus. And tears.September 10, 2012 2:19 am at 2:19 am #896021
EK, ” I think I’ll pass up the opportunity to be “swaying and singing together, some dancing” by Selichos. I think I’ll opt for a Jewish shul, humbly and contritely beg HaShem for Selichah and Kapara. With Achdus. And tears”.
Thats a noble personal choice of yours, as others choose what inspires them and will heighten their spirituality for the Yomim Tovim, ideally, without the ridicule of others with the “Holier than Thou” attitude.
Hashem is the final Judge. He doesnt need part time helpers.September 10, 2012 2:34 am at 2:34 am #896022
Dont settle for cheap thrills. Get an Artscroll interlinear Selichos so you KNOW what you are saying. If you read the words and try to connect with them with honesty and sincerity you will have a true spiritual experience that will be in line with what Selichos was meant for.September 10, 2012 3:20 am at 3:20 am #896023
WIY: “Dont settle for cheap thrills”
1- You have no idea why I chose to go there. But I know in my heart, with zero hesitation, that Hashem gives me EXTRA credit for making that choice, and Ill end with that.
2- I think you ought to get an Artscroll Interlinear Machzor and read the “Al Chait”s really well, before and as you’re klapping your heart, so you KNOW what you are saying. You obviously forgot since last year. Numerous “Al Chait”s might apply.September 10, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #896024Sam2Participant
Is it so clear that the purpose of Slichos is to feel low and full of sin? I could definitely hear a claim that a Slichos which inspires feelings of wanting to be better in the future, regardless of how many sins were done in the past, is a successful one.September 10, 2012 4:29 am at 4:29 am #896025Eizena KupMember
Right you are. He doesn’t need part time helpers. Or detractors, or imitators.
If ALL of Klal Yisroel is shivering in awe and trepidation for the ???? ???? and one individual chooses to go elsewhere for “uplifting swaying and dancing” that is his own choice. To publicly announce and proclaim it on a “Torah” oriented site and then claim that all of Klal Yisroel have a ‘”Holier than Thou” attitude’ toward them?!? HaShem is our judge too.
Why choose a site as hallowed as the YESHIVA WORLD to mitigate and lessen the effect and atmosphere of ???? ????? Isn’t that what ???? ?????? are all about???September 10, 2012 5:10 am at 5:10 am #896026
“Why choose a site as hallowed as the YESHIVA WORLD to mitigate and lessen the effect and atmosphere of ???? ????? Isn’t that what ???? ?????? are all about???”
Smart individuals realize that not everyone is on the Madreiga of “Tzittering” and Davening in Shuls exactly like yours, in preparation for the Yomim Noraim.
Those who feel they are on a Madreiga higher than others, mocking others in the name of Hocheach Socheach es Amitecha, need some fine-tuning. Ask your LOR, especially if He is familiar with Kiruv successes.September 10, 2012 5:42 am at 5:42 am #896027
I’l leave to others to debate what selichos are for, how they should be said and what one should feel. I do, however, want to rebut a true slander -motzi shem ra-by WIY, when he says that
1)there was no mechitza in that shul- absolutely not true -this is an orthodox shul and men and women were separated during the tefillos with the appropriate mechitza. (You may want to pray in a shul where the women are cooped up in a different room but R”moshe zz’l already took care of that).
2) Secondly – to assert that there was “taaruvos’- how ? Certainly, during the selichos there was no taaruvos.
3) “none of they guys and girls looked at each other and had bad thoughts”. Now you can read minds? Only one being in the world can see in our hearts and minds and that is HKBH. For everyone else , it is “motzi shem ra”.
So,please, you are welcome to run your life as you wish but allow everyone to find his/her derech to HKBH in his/her way.September 10, 2012 5:56 am at 5:56 am #896028
With all due respect I dont buy this whole “im not on the madreiga” garbage. This is the excuse people have been using the last decade or W to little by little throw away yiddishkeit and to warp it into some grotesque thing that it isnt. The kids who want to text on Shabbos will say they arent ont he Madreiga to keep “whole” Shabbos and the people who dont want to go to minyan will say they arent on the madreiga to go to minyan….people have to stop with the pathetic excuses. Why do we pretend that things are so different if you look back not so long ago everyone was happy keeping the Torah the way it always was kept. Suddenly the last few decades every other day theres a new mishegas that further waters down Yiddishkeit.
Stop telling yourself you cant and you will realize that you can. Its nothing personal but I am just really bothered that frum adults who would and should ordinarily be in a regular shul saying slichos like a mentsch are taking part in some new age hippy version of Selichos with no mechitzah and girls all over the room.
There are maybe 20-30 people who “belong” there the rest had no business being there. Selichos isnt for entertainment.
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