November 8, 2021 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #2025984Bas🌸Participant
Which is better, or maybe we should say worse:
Music that has a non-Jewish tune but nice Choshuve, Jewish song (not only the words, but the way it is sung..)
Music that has a tune that was made up by a Yid, BUT is rock’n’roll goyishe styl with Jewsish words?
😀❤November 8, 2021 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #2026051
Both are terrible.November 8, 2021 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #2026057
They’re both terrible.November 8, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #2026060anonymous JewParticipant
Do we have to go through this again? There is no such thing as a Jewish tune! Throughout our history we adapted local tunes for our purposes. That’s why, for example, the music of Iraqi and Syrian Jews sounds Arabic, Bucharian Jewish Music sounds like all Bucharian music . The major difference between current Jewish music and older music is that we don’t remember the goyish song it was adopted from.November 8, 2021 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2026085mobicoParticipant
First is infinitely better. The only question is if it is Mamash l’Chatchilah or somewhat b’Dieved.November 8, 2021 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2026088KuvultParticipant
My family Farbrengs to very hard rock. We believe in elevating Non-jewish music and infusing it with Kedusha. Besides it sounds really great.November 8, 2021 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #2026124user176Participant
2 is worse. But in the end only the lyrics matter. If the tune reminds you of the goy version you should get less exposure to that music.November 9, 2021 8:28 am at 8:28 am #2026210ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤParticipant
Neither just listen to Niggunim. Niggunim are mamash geshmak and you can be assured they are jewish.November 9, 2021 11:53 am at 11:53 am #2026272besalelParticipant
anonymo usJew hit the nail the head. I will add this: all music you hear today evolved from other music. ALL. no exceptions. full stop.November 9, 2021 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #2026328
Yidden always had Jewish music that is and always was specifically Jewish in tune and in song. It may be that non-Jews copied some of it, but there always was and is very specifically Jewish music.November 9, 2021 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #2026342besalelParticipant
ujm: there is no evidence of that at all.November 9, 2021 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #2026345ubiquitinParticipant
“Which is better,”
I don’t think there’s an objective “better” or “worse”. Music is subjective it depends on individual taste, I generally like songs of the first type better. I’m sure others like the second type betterNovember 9, 2021 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #2026445
Rav Belsky told me once that a non-jewish melody can be used for a jewish song as long as it wasn’t used for a love song. He also said that the kashrus of a song depends on the kind of middos that it elicits and excites. A song which evokes a feeling of hefkerus, or makes you want to dance wildly, is not kosher, no matters who composed it.
One exception to this seems to be the famous story about the old kalover rebbe who overheard a farmer singing a song of longing for his wife – the rebbe “purchased” the song and was mekadesh it, writing Hungarian words to the tune about longing for moshiach. I know the yiddish version, but while i can’t speak Hungarian, I’m told it’s amazing.November 9, 2021 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #2026455
Ujm, while some people claim to have a mesorah about nigunim that were sung in the beis hamikdash, I don’t know of any other mesorah in crafting tunes that is distinctly”Jewish”. Apart from if we define jewish music as aidel, refined, joyous, uplifting, solemn, or other emotions that we use music to convey in a kosher way.November 9, 2021 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #2026462
The fact that we have music in the Beis Hamikdash and Dovid Hamelech, Shlomo Hamelech, were musical, demonstrates there’s Jewish music.November 9, 2021 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #2026480
I’m sure such a thing existed, but i don’t think anyone has a mesorah for it nowadaysNovember 9, 2021 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #2026485TS BaumParticipant
ujm is right. And I want to say that song is a very special thing, in a sense that it expresses the emotions of the writer and infuses the listener with the same emotion. And very good musicianists (whatever they’re called) can tell what style and emotions are put through the song. Jewish Songs are Jewish not because a jewish singer took a goyish tune and added jewish words, but because they have a Jewish Ta’am (taste). That’s my perspective.November 9, 2021 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #2026511Shimon NodelParticipant
Does terrible music made by a computer count as Jewish music? Do robots have brisim?November 11, 2021 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #2027192Zaphod BeeblebroxParticipant
It depends who installed the program to make the computer write the music. If it’s a Jew it shouldn’t be an issue. If true AI is ever invented we may have to revisit this issue. To answer the OP’s question, all jewish music is terrible for one reason or another. The reason you’ll hear just depends on who you ask. Either it’s all goyish or it’s all unoriginal. You can’t win. And @tsbaum, what on earth is a ‘jewish’ emotion? According to you, taking non jewish songs should not be a problem at all, as long as the original song isn’t talking about something truly disgusting. Even love songs should be ok; the emotion coming through will make you feel love and longing, and all you have to do is make some lyrics about hashem and Torah and you’re all set!November 11, 2021 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #2027287TS BaumParticipant
If your jewish (more likely frum) then you know what a Jewish Ta’am is. I didn’t say jewish emotions. Did you hear of Shabbos Zemiros? They have a certain Ehrleche feel to them.
Like Avraham Fried or Mordechai Ben Dovid’s songs gives you a different feeling than the music of nissim black or Gad Elbaz. Right?
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