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just wondering..
Is it ok to listen to music (Jewish music!!) on a fast day…
And is it different with playing an instrument?
Nobody knows.
I don’t think I’d be allowed to play on Yom Kippur (outside the bais hamikdash). Listening, I think (I’m playing Rav now) would be permitted. On tisha b’av one may only play and listen if qoing out r”l into exile, al kidush HaShem. Taanis Esther both listening and playing are permitted. Asarah b’teves and shiva asar b’tamuz, both are forbidden (unless you’re an amateur, and the instrument is a violin – OUCH!!). Tzom Gedaliah I pasken that I don’t know.
When going into exile, are you allowed to play using your thumb?
Amateur pipe organ, saxophone and drum can compete with violin.
HaLeiVi: I believe LF was referring to the Abarbanel, not Al Naharos Bavel. And the reason for the Abarbanel was that he considered morale Pikuach Nefesh in that case. Nothing to do with performing a Kiddush Hashem.
To answer the original question (outside of Yome Kippur, Shivasar B’Tammuz, and Tishah B’av), it’s just as Assur or Muttar on any fast day as it is all year round.
Sure, his reference wasn’t lost on me. It’s just that once he made it sound like a rule for going into exile I pulled up another Binyan Av.
I pasken that I remember hearing some prohibition on asara bteves. I further pasken I may be wrong.
and as far as the Spanish expulsion, I think the Rabbonim permittted it for those TWO reasons. Because they were going Al Kiddush HaShem, they permitted it in order to lift their spirits. (I don’t remember a pikuach nefesh factor) And I think it wasn’t the Abarbanel who was the one who permitted it, rather the general Rabbinic presence.
(drawing on memory), again I pasken I may be wrong.
xerox- As far as I know, music and its accoutrements are a function of aveilus and has nothing to do with fasting. SO, Tisha be’av and shivah osor betammuz-NO. Sefira days- No,although there are different views on recorded music, tsom gedalyah- why not? taanis esther-certainly. I don’t know about asoroh beteves- off the top of my head-yes.
I am not paskening anything whatsoever, this is strictly from my emotional reaction to the question – but, if I am already fasting for a higher purpose, whether it is the aveilus of the churban, or to commemmorate the nisayon of Esther Hamalkah and Klal Yisroel, or the death of Gedalyah, it just would seem to not be in the spirit of those events to be listening to music. Perhaps it IS permitted, and that’s why we have Halachos and do not reply on our personal emotional responses for the proper thing to do – I personally would look for something else to do that seems more in line with the day at hand.
Oomis: Ta’anis Esther, if I recall correctly is to commemorate the three day fasting of the Yidden in Shushan, and the fasting of all the Yidden the day before the want out at war to protect themselves. We fast to memorialize the concept that HaShem is ???? ?????? ????. That’s not really a contradiction to merriment.
It is those sad occasions, whose fast commemorates mourning, that are a contradiction to making merry.
(I think in the Bais Hamikdash, the Leviim played music on Yom Kippur, on Tisha bAv they didn’t)
“I think in the Bais Hamikdash, the Leviim played music on Yom Kippur, on Tisha bAv they didn’t”
Music is a required part of the daily avodah. How could 9 Av be any different?
(Oh, so you don’t know me yet!!)
Could be there was no Bais Hamikdash on Tisha b’Av.
(see thread about frogs and explaining jokes)
Um. When they didn’t play on Tisha B’av they didn’t play on Yom Kippur, either. And for that matter, nor did they play on Tu B’av.
Oomis: Ta’anis Esther, if I recall correctly is to commemorate the three day fasting of the Yidden in Shushan, and the fasting of all the Yidden the day before the want out at war to protect themselves. We fast to memorialize the concept that HaShem is ???? ?????? ????. That’s not really a contradiction to merriment. “
Yes, but Esther Hamalka believed herself to possibly be about to be executed a la Vashti. That was certainly a serious and somber moment, and I personally (again, NOT paskening, this is just my own personal choice on a fast day)don’t feel that of all days, that bedavka on a fast day I have a great need to listen to music. I certainly don’t feel that obligates anyone else, unless there is a clear halacha regarding this.
I hear (well not really) AND UNDERSTAND you.
Oomis, thankfully thought, she over that. It is not a Yom Tzara just like the seventh day of Pesach is not a Yom Tzara although the Bnei Yisroel felt in danger. Besides, this is not the day that she fasted, but it is the day that the Jews were victorious. And the Gemara says that in some instances, the Megilla can be read on the 13th without a Remez in the Pasuk, based on the fact that this was the day of the victory.
One thing that makes me wonder is the Slichos that is said on Taanis Esther.
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