Must a boy who is in Shidduchim always be shaven?

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  • #607912

    WIY
    Member

    If a boy has entered Shidduchim must he make an effort to shave a few times a week even if he has no dates just to be seen as freshly shaven? Meaning if you see a boy in the street who has a few days growth of beard (unless it grows very fast by him and or he happens to look particularly badly that way) would it negatively impact your impression of him? Is it really necessary to make this effort?

    #924164

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    If he doesn’t, he’s good – there are always always the sweatshirt girls for him to date.

    #924165

    Personally, my opinion is that every guy in shidduchim should have a beard. It enhances ones stature and declares himself a Torah Yid.

    #924166

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I can only speak for myself, but it certainly doesn’t bother me.

    #924167

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I’m a bit bothered by the way you are asking this question in the objective–almost as if there is a right way and a wrong way, and that you think there is a possibility that a guy in shidduchim must be clean shaven or he is violating some inyan in hishtadlus.

    #924168

    Yussel
    Participant

    I think a man should look clean. I don’t see why he can only look Jewish if he has a beard.

    #924169

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Hair is not dirt.

    #924170

    SaysMe
    Member

    oom +1!

    #924171

    akuperma
    Participant

    if he wants to marry a girl who wants a clean-shaven boy

    Rule for shidduch that hold fast in all situations: Look and act like the person the other person wants to marry

    #924172

    A beard is the cleanest look. Clean shaven is very feminine and immature.

    #924173

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    OneOfMany FTW

    #924174

    akuperma: good advice!

    #924175

    WIY
    Member

    popa_bar_abba

    More than once I was “lectured” by older people (mother, aunt, father friend…) that a boy should always be freshly shaved. I was thinking huh? You cant be serious! But I want to know what people as a whole think.

    #924176

    oomis
    Participant

    A boy should be well-groomed, whether clean-shaven or not.

    #924177

    WIY
    Member

    oomis

    I know I agree. I am well groomed but yesterday I got a talk from someone that I should have shaved it was only 3 days from Shabbos and I didnt look like a mess. My beard doesnt grow wild and doesnt grow that fast or thick. I actually look ok with a few days growth.

    #924178

    superstar
    Member

    I think beard stubble is okay as long as it doesn’t turn into a full grown, long beard cuz that will just make you look five years older than you really are. For a certain age, though, no stubble at all would be better.

    #924179

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    All joking aside, WIY – why do you think it is okay for a guy in shidduchim to go less than perfectly groomed (according to the almighty shidduch standards – this does not reflect my personal opinion), but not for a girl to do so?* Don’t you think that’s kind of a double standard?

    *(This is of course with the stipulation that the said lapse in grooming (i.e. wearing sweatshirts) entails that the sweatshirts be properly fitted and not marked with symbols, logos, words, or graphics of any kind.)

    #924180

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I agree with Oomis. I would add, so should a man, so should a girl, and so should a woman.

    #924181

    oomis
    Participant

    DY, agreed 100%.

    #924182

    mom18
    Member

    Personal hygiene, showering, wearing clean clothes together with acting appropriately (not screaming/ shouting to friends across the street/ not becoming willingly inebriated / not being rude/ careless driving) and acting with a little humility without any ‘iz kumpst tzu mir’ attitude go a lot longer distance than the last time a boy was in contact with Norelco.

    #924183

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Mom18,

    Ok, but this wasn’t a competition.

    #924184

    postsemgirl
    Member

    The following is my humble opinion:

    Boys and girls should not be doing what “everyone else” says is correct like not wearing sweatshirts or shaving every single day.

    Personally, I want to marry a guy who does things according to halacha and once halacha is met he should feel comfortable doing whatever he wants regardless of what “everyone else” says.

    We are creating children who are not comfortable in their own skins. A girl who feels horrible about herself because she wants to wear a sweatshirt and chas v’shalom wear her hair curly one day instead of burning her hair to death with an iron. A boy who doesn’t feel like shaving every day and when he is playing basket ball wears a tee shirt. O my goodness people… chill!

    #924185

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Postsemgirl, there have always been social standards in addition to halacha.

    #924186

    oomis
    Participant

    Postsemgirl +1

    #924188

    postsemgirl
    Member

    Social standards are good until they become a cause for self doubt when in truth he/she is not doing anything wrong per se.

    #924189

    golfer
    Participant

    Postsemgirl +1 from me too

    Guess that makes it +2

    #924191

    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    IMHO a bochur who doesn’t grow a beard should shave either every day or every 2 days (depending how fast/slow the hairs come in. No matter where you are, you must look like a mentch and not with this new mishigas ‘stubble look’ which became quite fashionable and commom today. I think it’s messy, lazy looking, and has hints of the ‘homeless-man’ look. pathetic. A girl is expected to wear makeup and dress ‘put together’, especially when in the parsha, a bochur is expected to do his hishtadlus and shave. Same goes for excercising daily, watching your weight, and getting enough sleep, to name a few.

    Not shaving at that stage of life (shidduchim) shows he doesn’t care enough to make a nice impression, is lazy, and is a definite negative in my books.

    #924192

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    torah613613torah: Social standards like wearing Juicy sweatshirts? How exactly am I compelled by halacha to follow such “Jewish standards”?

    #924193

    SaysMe
    Member

    postsemgirl +1

    baalhabooze- i’m ‘in the parshah’ but dont wear makeup everyday. Or iron my hair. For me, i see it as having become the equivalent of wearing the latest fashion or designer labels, neither of which i do either. No that doesnt mean i’m a shlump or walk around looking like i just rolled out of bed. And thats where the line gets blurred. Shaving how often, makeup when, sweatshirts… Which is too casual and by whose standards, and which are just part of looking put together.

    #924194

    postsemgirl
    Member

    Nice to see that people agree with me 🙂

    #924195

    Toi
    Participant

    shave on friday. unless its chol hamoed. or acc. to some, rosh chodesh.

    #924196

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    SaysMe +1

    #924197

    SaysMe
    Member

    whooo! oom agreed with me! i’m honored!

    #924198

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    OOM: Social standards do matter, and I think that the OP has a valid question. Boys just have a different social standard. It’s way more important to me that a boy looks dressed for a date and put together than when he last shaved, and I’m probably not the only girl who thinks that way.

    I think social standards are good, for people who wouldn’t keep halacha otherwise.

    #924199

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    When OOM disagrees with me, that means I’m a worthy opponent.

    #924200

    Ken Zayn
    Member

    must he make an effort to shave a few times a week even if he has no dates just to be seen as freshly shaven?

    Yes if he’s a buddhist monk

    #924201

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    SaysMe: ^_^

    torah613: I agree that social standards can matter. But a lot of times they are taken to an extent where they become stam silly. For example, I agree with the idea that people in shidduchim should make the extra effort to make themselves look presentable. But when you start naming random articles of clothing or hygiene choices and categorically stating that they are “presentable” or “pas nisht,” then you are taking the idea to the silly extreme.

    Basically, I think that all things that are “done” should be subject to some scrutiny before they are done.

    I think social standards are good, for people who wouldn’t keep halacha otherwise.

    Explain?

    #924202

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    OOM: People are influenced by people. I might want to wear something but if my friends would look at me in horror, I wouldn’t wear it. This is why communities have standards.

    #924203

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    torah613: And if they look at you in horror because you wear green and they prefer only black? Is that considered halachically “good”?

    Also, I think that it is very bad to keep halacha only because the people around you are doing it, and not at all a feasible mode of avodas Hashem.

    #924204

    SaysMe
    Member

    i thinj torah613 is dancing around the concept of minhag hamakom. But it has its limits. As oom used, if they prefer black and u wear green, thats totally fine. But so go sockless in meah she’arim would not be

    #924205

    WIY
    Member

    I think the most important factor here is not what some random girl in the street will think when she sees a boy not freshly shaved but rather what it looks like to older people who see you and would consider you for someone they know. So my question is geared towards people who are older and out of the shidduch parsha or know what their parents would think if they saw a guy who had a few days growth of beard but it doesn’t look bad just its not freshly shaved. Does it really give a bad impression or are some older people biased because they are in the business world and in business it is unprofessional to show up with stubble on your face (at least by the non Jews) so working people tend to associate stubble with a lack of being put together. But then if that’s the case a guy should have to always look clean shaven which could mean shaving an extra few times a week which is a pain and takes time. I would do it if its necessary but I really don’t know. I may sound like Im overthinking this whole thing but Im really not. People please weigh in and let me know. Thanks.

    #924206

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Okay, so what you’re saying is that your whole piece on sweatshirts is really irrelevant?

    #924207

    oomis
    Participant

    Neat beards are fine. Stubble, not so fine, unless it is Sefira or the Three Weeks. Grow a beard or shave, but be well-groomed, no matter what derech you choose for your facial hair.

    #924208

    WIY
    Member

    OneOfMany

    No. I don’t see why you should say so.

    #924209

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    So what your saying is that what shidduch-age boys consider “presentable” in a girl matters, but not vice versa? Or are you saying that just your opinion matters?

    #924210

    WIY
    Member

    OneOfMany

    I mean that from my understanding girls dont care if a guy shaves regularly as long as he looks presentable, especially on dates lol. Its more that the adults seem to care so I am asking if its just these few people that said something to me or is it a larger group in our society who feels that boys must shave a few x a week.

    #924211

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    OOM, judging others is never halachically good. I am dancing around the concept because it does have some truth.

    #924212

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    WIY: You’re right – I personally wouldn’t care, and I think most girls wouldn’t as well. I just don’t get why you take that for granted and don’t feel the need to show any clemency in return.

    #924213

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    torah613: I get minhag hamakom (if that was what you are trying to get at?) and I have no argument with it. I don’t agree that Jewish social standards and minhag hamakom are the same thing.

    Also, granted there is some merit to peer pressure, when it influences you to do the right thing – what I am trying to get at here is that social standards aren’t necessarily always directed toward the right thing.

    #924214

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    What oomis said. Look presentable. And if you shave daily, PLEASE do not show up for a date with a 5 o’clock shadow.

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