August 28, 2011 3:10 am at 3:10 am #803220rb1108Member
No, I don’t think it’s normal. Most people dress up for a first date – Yeshivish, Modern, non-Jewish. Normal is a nice outfit, heels if the height diff allows, and nice hair, makeup, jewelry and nails. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with not being into that, but if it bothers you, she’s def not going to get any more into her dress.
If she was dressed nicely but casually, that could just be an age thing. When I came back from seminary, I dressed UP for first and seconds dates – wedding/shabbos wear. I’m 22 now and my friends and I go more casual – only clothes, not with anything else listed above. (I feel kinda dumb thinking back to 19)August 28, 2011 3:15 am at 3:15 am #803221
Popa is absolutely correct. It is very tragic that girls dress up for a wedding to attract strange men. Yet it unfortunately not only true, but very prevalent. This crime is done by both married and unmarried girls.August 28, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #803222
i dress up for weddings cuz it’s fun!! its the one excuse we have to get all dressed up, wear funky makeup, wear a super fancy dress, and feel rlly pretty without looking stupid!! dressing up for a DATE on the other hand, looks completely RIDICULOUS!!! people on the street r wondering y ur so fancy to go out to eat or get coffee!!!August 28, 2011 4:00 am at 4:00 am #803223
Whats not believable about dressing appropriately for an occasion. weddings are fancy so girls dress fancy. hotel lounges or restaurants not so much.
DUHAugust 28, 2011 4:01 am at 4:01 am #803224GadolseekerMember
were u in florida by any chance? I think I saw u on a date there!August 28, 2011 4:05 am at 4:05 am #803225
Whats not believable about dressing appropriately for an occasion. weddings are fancy so girls dress fancy. hotel lounges or restaurants not so much.
That’s ridiculous. It is the occasion which is fancy, not the venue.
You would dress up for a wedding even if it was on the beach. You would dress up for an interview even if it was in a laid back office. You should dress up for a date.August 28, 2011 4:37 am at 4:37 am #803226
No one mentioned the second, maybe more primary reason girls get dressed up for weddings: it’s an opportunity to be seen. Even at separate weddings girls can be seen by boys and certainly by shadchanim and mothers of single boys. they are also being compared to other girls so they’ve really got to stand out. The girl with fine middos will be noticed only if she’s helping an old lady find a seat! Chassunah clothing for women would be totally inappropriate for a date. Most single girls I’ve seen dress in VERY dressy outfits that would be Inappropriate for any date. Mens suits are different. A girl should try to look her best for a date. Dressing less fancy for a date than at a chassunah is not a show of disrespect. If someone is the sister of the bride and she wears a gown to her sisters wedding, should she also wear the gown on a date?!? Certain modes of dress are expected at certain locations.August 28, 2011 4:40 am at 4:40 am #803227
If someone is the sister of the bride and she wears a gown to her sisters wedding, should she also wear the gown on a date?!?
Depends. Is her sister getting married on the date?
But I like that you agreed they dress up at weddings to be noticed.August 28, 2011 4:44 am at 4:44 am #803228
Which is very wrong.August 28, 2011 4:50 am at 4:50 am #803229
A girl I went to sem with was seen at a fellow classmates chassunah by a boy who was interested in her. They were eventually set up and got married. Girls don’t just dress up for fun like barbie dolls. They’re dressing for tachlis. I’ll never forget how my Rabbi’s daughter came to my sister’s levaya with make-up on. It startled me. Yet, I understood she was in the parsha of shidduchim and therefore dressed a certain way. It’s tachlis.August 28, 2011 4:52 am at 4:52 am #803230
I’m not getting what you’re saying. You are endorsing dressing up at weddings to get attention from guys, but then not endorsing dressing up on dates to get attention from a guy you are actually dating.August 28, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #803231
No, no, no… That’s not what I’m saying. Sorry I didn’t explain further. I definitely think a girl should make an effort to dress nicely for a date. What that means is somewhat subjective. Some may expect a suit, others casual shabbos… Either way, she most definitely should make a supreme effort to put herself together nicely… Make-up, hair done nicely, attractive clothing. Dressing up is a sign of respect and regard for the date. Dressing down can easily be perceived as a lack of interest in pursuing the shidduch.
I just think that outfits that are SUPER dressy are inappropriate for a date (think rhinestones on clothing, diamond and pearl earrings, etc…). There’s a limit as to what one can get away with on a date, in either direction: too fancy or too casual. It sounds like this girl went too far to the too casual. However, I would not suggest refusing a shidduch for that.August 28, 2011 5:03 am at 5:03 am #803232
popa she’s saying u have to dress for how the situation calls for. weddings calls to be super fancy, and dates call to look nice, not super fancy. wat ur implying is that a girl can only look pretty when she’s all dolled up for a wedding. which is false. you don’t know much about girls it seems or dating for that matterAugust 28, 2011 5:11 am at 5:11 am #803233
you don’t know much about girls it seems or dating for that matter
…you don’t know much about guys it seems…August 28, 2011 5:53 am at 5:53 am #803234
“That’s ridiculous. It is the occasion which is fancy, not the venue.You would dress up for a wedding even if it was on the beach. You would dress up for an interview even if it was in a laid back office.”
Not true. The venue of a wedding is usually fancy because the occasion is fancy. And to less fancy weddings, girls dress in less fancy dresses. And people wear different interview outfits depending on the type of interview and level of chilledness. So dates, which are occasions that are not as fancy as weddings, in addition to being held at venues which are less fancy than wedding halls, do not warrant outfits that are as fancy as those girls would wear to a wedding.
Plain and simple Popa.August 28, 2011 6:00 am at 6:00 am #803235
I think we can agree that the event as a whole is what calls for a mode of dress, and that we usually just dress the way everyone else does. I don’t think we need to disagree on that.
I am simply suggesting that the level of dress for girls on a first date should be higher than it is now. That’s all. So if it was considered normal, it would be that way. I don’t think you would look ridiculous dressing up on a date, any more than you do wearing a shabbos outfit to a starbucks.
Especially as some posters agreed that girls dress up for weddings to be noticed.
I recall once on a date the girl pointed out another couple where the girl was very dressed up. I wondered to myself why she was not dressed up as well.
I would have appreciated it. I bet most guys also would. I shined my shoes, and shaved and wore my best suit and nicest tie. I dressed far better than I do for a wedding. I did it for you. Do something for me.August 28, 2011 6:39 am at 6:39 am #803236
“I don’t think you would look ridiculous dressing up on a date, any more than you do wearing a shabbos outfit to a starbucks.”
So she would look that much more ridiculous in a wedding dress in starbucks.
Fact of the matter is that girls should dress nicely on dates. Wedding dresses is just really pushing it. Besides, if a girl is put together and is dressed in nice clothes i’d venture to say most Yeshiva boys do not get the difference between a shabbos to shul dress, shabbos afternoon dress, vort dress, motzei shabbos when you want to dress nice dress, etc. Girls just have to look good. They do not have to be in silk and chiffon and sequins and taffeta like they would be at a wedding.August 28, 2011 6:40 am at 6:40 am #803237
I was once given mussar to by a rav who I went to speak to with a potential shidduch. The rav asked me why I was dressed so casual for a date. I was not wearing a Jean skirt. I dressed in nice bigdei choll: blouse, vest and a skirt. It wasn’t fancy enough for the rav. He expected shabbos clothing, even well into the shidduch process. I didn’t even realize I had done something wrong until he told me. I felt ashamed, but I remembered it.August 28, 2011 6:49 am at 6:49 am #803238
Besides, if a girl is put together and is dressed in nice clothes i’d venture to say most Yeshiva boys do not get the difference between a shabbos to shul dress, shabbos afternoon dress, vort dress, motzei shabbos when you want to dress nice dress, etc.
I’d venture to say you’ve never been a guy. Why do you assume guys can’t tell the difference? Perhaps we don’t know by looking at an outfit which is which, but we sure can tell what looks better.August 28, 2011 6:51 am at 6:51 am #803239
I’m confused, did you go together with your date?
or did you date the Rov? If #1 Did he tell in front of your date?
btw, I don’t usually get confused.August 28, 2011 6:56 am at 6:56 am #803240
I’m a guy, and I couldn’t tell the difference between one type of dress or another.August 28, 2011 8:19 am at 8:19 am #803241mom12Participant
So.. Any engagement yet?August 28, 2011 8:40 am at 8:40 am #803242ToiParticipant
okeedokee. this thread is ridiculous, just a bit. standard date 1 dresas code isnt cas. thats understood.if your planning on investing heavily in this promising relationship, you come dressed to say so. (not in white gown though; could be misleadingAugust 28, 2011 9:41 am at 9:41 am #803243phoenicianMember
ootinny, Bein_hasedorim, and TOI, thanks for the laughs. A gut vach. May everyone stay safe! and act smart?August 28, 2011 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #803244minyan galMember
This thread is ridiculous. Perhaps the girl should greet her date wearing a long white gown and a veil. If he likes what he sees, the date becomes a shidduch and if he doesn’t it could save a lot of time, trouble and money (and a courtship) for both parties. In some cultures the bride and groom do not meet until they reach the altar. From what I have read, these marriages work as well (in many cases, much better) as the “courtship” marriages do.August 28, 2011 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #803245
I dress to kill for weddings, used to do the same when dating too.
Funny idk why i never got strange women chasing after me.
In line at shop-rite or wal-mart is another story, (and “strange” is an understatment)
However, my Rabbeim never chided me for dressing sharp as being a tempting Nisayon for Maidlach.
Unfortunately we live in a time where girls & I mean girls, not married women must use bait to catch the fish. As long as they are doing this at weddings and on dates, for the purpose of snagging
the intended mate, not going to bars & Clubs R”L,
I & you should have no problem with it.
Is it not enough that so many young girls at the shidduch age of 21-30’s are still single racking their brains to figure out what they must do (believe me they daven & say Tehillim, Perek Shira & Shir Hashirim etc..) now you want to tell them not to dress up for weddings and dates?!!.
I’m a guy, when I dated I noticed the girls that cared to look nice, be clean, dress well,(as I noticed their fine middos genuine character and sweet personality.) However, I also unfortunately
noticed the girls that came dressed like they hijacked jc penny
or the salvation army. greasy hair, worn out battered shoes.
Don’t think many of us don’t notice. Now If I get some posts like, “guys who care about looks are shallow”, etc.. either you’re hypocrites & liars, or from another planet way out.
Girls, pls do your Hishtadlus after davening etc..
look presentable, Be Tzanua & HB”H will send the right guy speedily. Also, first impressions are hard to overcome, so come dressed nicely on a first date. Hatzlacha!August 28, 2011 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #803246mewhoParticipant
i think it is very untznius. always remember that people should not dress up nicely. it is showy and not tznius.
best to wear an outfit that looks like a school uniformAugust 28, 2011 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #803247
Unfortunately we live in a time where girls & I mean girls, not married women must use bait to catch the fish.
Are you kidding? They can be nichshal men “to catch the fish”? What’s the heter for that and who issued it?
BTW, in the Yeshivish community how many marriage do you personally know that came about from a girl dressing to be stared and met a boy (who was looking at the other side of the mechitza) at a wedding? Do you also suppose removing the mechitza at the wedding? How else will these girls looking (and dressed) to be looked at be able to “bait the boys” at the wedding with their choicy dress?
And, do you really expect married women to dress less attractive at a chasunah than unmarried women? (As a realistic matter, not idealistic.)August 28, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #803248
And when the boy does get baited by her short dress and perfume and jewelry, does the Yeshivish boy wait to stalk her as she leaves the wedding (constantly checking the other side of the mechitza to see when she is leaving) and ask her out as she walks out? Or should he just walk over to the other side of the mechitza and pull her from the dancing to ask her for her number?August 28, 2011 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #803249cvParticipant
I don’t think it is normal for a man to discuss publicly how girl was dressed.He need to discuss this with shadchan. Interesting enough, he never explained what he concider to be casual.August 28, 2011 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #803250
Single girls are noticed at weddings by shadchanim, well meaning people and mothers and relatives of boys of marriageable age.August 28, 2011 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #803251
mmm22: IOW, the girls dress to be ogled at weddings for the shadchanim?August 29, 2011 1:24 am at 1:24 am #803252
tomche i agree with all that u said! the types of boys that are looking for bait at weddings are not the ones we want to be attracting. Like I said, I just think it’s fun to dress up (tzniusly) and I guess mothers or shadchans can notice you (out of 40 weddings I went to, one mother asked about me) but for the most part, gimme a break, most people are looking for guys, not girls. And it’s good you don’t notice how girls are dressed and that’s the way it should be. bein-hasdorim and popa need a little working on themselves bec it seems they notice way too much what the girl is wearing barfAugust 29, 2011 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #803253adorableParticipant
I dont think they notice too many things. they are sitting across this guy for a couple hours and talking you have to be blind not to see what they are wearing.August 29, 2011 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #803254
Tomche; Firstly, what on earth are you talking about? short skirts?
Whoever said anything about not dressing Tzniusdig?
I’m saying they should dress nicely at weddings.
Most guys who were redt their basherte at a wedding, the girl was pointed out to them from afar. If they thought they seemed nice they tell the shadchan to send them the info.
Secondly, what on earth is wrong with wearing perfume?
Did you attend a Holy seminary that told you this?
Do you hang out on the women side? I have never gotten close enough to other women at a wedding as to get a whiff of their perfume. Idk if you’re a girl or a guy, but if the latter, what on earth do you do at weddings?August 29, 2011 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #803255oomisParticipant
many yeshivish guys consider going out for coffee as a reasonable first date. If she thought that’s where you were likely taking her, she was totally appropriately dressed. I think the biggest problem in shidduch dating is a serious lack of communication. If you expected her to be more fahpitzed, you should have conveyed that to her in some manner. You really have not told us what she was wearing, so what you think of as very casual, might be the norm for most frum girls.August 30, 2011 12:01 am at 12:01 am #803256Queen BeeMember
*ducks from the flying shoes*August 30, 2011 12:45 am at 12:45 am #803257onneaMember
Why are we trying to regulate something that is at best subjective and,at worst, arbitrary and utterly meaningless?
Yes, I think that communication is key and both parties should be aware of expectations and locale for a date.
But, to split hairs between “dressy” and “wedding” clothes is both ridiculous and demeaning to both the women and the relationship you are hoping to create.
Say you’re going out to coffee, or even out to dinner. If she is hygienic and inoffensive (ie, not wearing hiking boots to a restaurant) then that should really be okay with everyone. Both the man and the woman should dress nicely within their comfort zone, for if she goes wildly out of her way to appear a stunner, how awkward will it be post-wedding when she is far more casual?
Because (and this may shock you) there are MANY women that care less about their looks than their personalities, and if that offends the male (perhaps due to the females around whom HE was raised) then either its not a shidduch, or its an issue that deserves a solid conversation.
Remember, sof kol sof, its a man and woman, really a boy and a girl, deciding to spend the rest of their lives together.
Don’t distract them with foolish rules. Its not fair.August 30, 2011 5:12 am at 5:12 am #803258yid4lifeMember
Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l had mixed seating for the singles at his children’s weddings for this purpose!August 30, 2011 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #803259CheinMember
y4l: That’s incorrect. Rav Moshe always insisted on separate seating at his children’s weddings. At most of the weddings it was completely separate. At some the other side (mechutanim i.e. Tendler) had some mixed seating for their side.August 30, 2011 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #803260emanParticipant
My daughter had a date during the 9 days and my LOR paskened she should wear shabbos cloth.
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