my friend is going off

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  • #615561
    Daniell11
    Member

    What should I do one of my good friends I fear is going off.

    #1073764
    Joseph
    Participant

    Bring him back on track.

    #1073765
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Be a friend.

    #1073766
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    I like that answer very much, Goq. Be a friend. Unwavering. Faithfully. Unquestioningly. Always. That has proven to help.

    #1073767
    yentachaya
    Participant

    Don’t be judgemental. That’s what pushes them off even further. Just be friendly and do the things you’ve always done. Also, don’t expect that things will turn around overnight. Chances are that they won’t and you’ll only become disappointed in him/her. Have patience as this can be a long process.

    #1073768
    TheGoq
    Participant

    thanks lf.

    #1073769
    Daniell11
    Member

    What do I do whilst being a friend? Invite him around for shabbos? What else? I fear that inviting him round for shabbos may make him break shabbos as he lives far away?

    #1073770
    apushatayid
    Participant

    dont push

    #1073771
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Daniell: That is truly an earnest sha’alo for a competent Rav.

    Hatzlacha!!! (you’ll need it)

    #1073772
    Sam2
    Participant

    If he’s not keeping Shabbos it’s not a Shailah of someone going off, it’s someone who is off already. Which may not change things, but it definitely is a factor.

    #1073773
    flatbusher
    Participant

    This is not advice as much as a question–why does someone go off the derech, except for some dissatisfaction with Yiddishkeit

    #1073775
    MameshhTov98
    Member

    Open up a Gemara – question answered

    #1073776
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    This is not advice as much as a question–why does someone go off the derech, except for some dissatisfaction with Yiddishkeit

    In general there is a decline in religious belifs in modern society and it affects all relgions not just judaism. The fastest growing religion in the US is no religion.

    #1073777
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    This is not advice as much as a question–why does someone go off the derech, except for some dissatisfaction with Yiddishkeit

    It depends. For the most part, teenagers and young adults arent going off because theyre so intellectual and after thinking about it for years just cant resolve yedia and bechira. In most cases they are have personal troubles couples with a lack of drive for yiddishkiet

    #1073778
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The act of opening a Gemara does not answer any questions.

    #1073779
    flatbusher
    Participant

    I have heard that people even in cloistered communities such as Meah Shearim or New Square go off. As thinking beings, individuals may decide this is not for them, and presto, they’re gone. Nothing new about that. But let’s look at how our frum society operates. Highest value is placed on learning, but what if you’re not good at it or not interested in it? Suddenly that places you a rung or more below others. Or say you grow up in a very chumaradik home, and you feel suffocated. Or maybe people view the hypocrisy of frum people who act and dress frum and then act dishonestly in business. People going off the derech come from all sorts of backgrounds, and have all sorts of reasons, and only by discussing it with the person going off can you get a sense of why they choose that path and see if concerns can be addressed that will bring the back.

    #1073780
    Joseph
    Participant

    flatbusher: The more cloistered/chumaradik the community, the less likely the people are to go off. The Meah Shearim/New Square have from the least dropouts. More mainstream chasidim have less dropouts than yeshivish. And yeshivish have less dropouts than MO. So your theory holds no water.

    #1073781
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Probably the main reason there are less dropouts from more Charedi communties as opposed to MO communities is because its just harder to leave.

    Its not so easy to leave if you cant speak english properly , lack secular education and dont know social norms for the outside world.

    The latest genere of OTD books are not from people of MO backrounds, but of former chassidim

    #1073782
    flatbusher
    Participant

    It’s not a theory, it’s just an observation that people go off the derech even from the most cloistered communities. Not sure where you came to make your comment; I wasn’t quantifying anything, other that no community is immune from going off the derech, and I don’t see you producing any statistics to back your comments either.

    #1073783
    Zev7
    Member

    Learn a little Mussar and think about life for a minute or two and realize that just because your friend is “going off” it doesn’t mean his gehenoim is going to be any hotter than yours and you will start to act as the same friend you always were and if enough people do that, he will get the feeling that Yiddishkiet is a beautiful true religion that is all about believing in and fearing the creator of the world and not about his parents, teachers and friends telling him how he should live his life.

    #1073784
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    joseph – that, by the way, is ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing to support such a crazy claim. But then again, you are Joseph aren’t you?

    #1073785
    Joseph
    Participant

    Of course there’s support for that. Regarding the MO OTD rate, it is well established that it is far far higher than any other Orthodox group. Rabbi Pruzansky of Teaneck, MO himself, famously discussed this a couple of years ago. (See: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/shocking-study-of-modern-orthodox-otd-rate for a discussion of that.)

    #1073786
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Just be a friend. That’s as easy and as hard as it is.

    Coming from a fellow teen!

    #1073787
    flatbusher
    Participant

    That study that Pruzansky cited of graduates of MO high schools did not reflect that many of those attending the schools are not shomer shabbos to begin or marginally. No study well establishes anything, Joseph.

    #1073788
    Daniell11
    Member

    Thank you for all your help. I will try and put these pieces of advise into practice and I’yh I will get my friend out of these acts. I seriously hope that he will come back to the only complete nation of the jewish people.

    #1073789
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Daniel, have you ever asked your friend what brought on the change?

    #1073790
    Daniell11
    Member

    No. It gets a bit awkward when it comes too Judaism

    #1073791
    yentachaya
    Participant

    Guys, no need to fight, seriously. And Daniel, don’t bring up Judaism/religious observance or lack thereof. That’s not your place. Remember that you’re his friend, not his Rabbi or mentor.

    Good luck!

    #1073792
    Daniell11
    Member

    Shecoyach for all your help. Will report back in a few months.

    #1073793
    nfgo3
    Member

    If you think your friend is going off, try to defuse him/her by removing the detonator. But be very careful.

    #1073794
    Daniell11
    Member

    Nfgo3 thanks for that useful advice!

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