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sairay
I’m sorry but your comments are making less and less sense .“They were tested during pregnancy and surprise, the vaccine was either ineffective of worn off”
That is MORE of a reason to vaccinate not less. It isn’t 100% effective, correct. Thus by more people getting it and more people being protected there are less vectors to infect those who the vaccine was not effective for.“Add to that number the twenty million undocumented immigrants ”
what makes you think they aren’t vaccinated? Most of them care about their children, which is often wh ythey came here in the first place. most are more intelligent than the pro-diseasers who claim to have researched the subject, yet as k the same old questions over and over and over as if they were the first to think about it.
“Does he send down imperfect babies to the world”
Actually, yes. Then we improve upon the boys by giving them a bris milah. And then we teach them right from wrong as they grow older. And we generally try to improve our imperfect selves in the years we have on this earth.
All of us are born imperfect and all of us die imperfect. Our job is to 1. improve ourselves spiritually and 2. keep ourselves physically healthy so we can do #1 as long as possible.
If someone refuses to eat on yom kippur despite medical and/or rabbinic advice telling him to eat, and says that he has bitachon that Hashem will protect him is held responsible if death results. Not sure how this is much different.
Parting shot…
If you want to claim that Hashem would not create imperfect babies, how do you explain the unfortunate incidences of children born with various degenerative or terminal illnesses?
to OurTorah:
Have you seen graphs showing rates of death from measles from the years before vaccines and following?
The death rate had gone down significantly before the vaccines were introduced.
Now that we have the measles going around we can check the accuracy of the CDC’s estimations.
In this season of measles we had at least 2,000 cases of reported measles. that should give us 2-4 deaths according to the CDC.
Well we lost one baby, and its unclear if it was really the measles, as the baby had an underlying condition. (but of course the media won’t bring that information; we need to scare everybody into getting the vaccine).
Smells fishy to me.The FACTS here are really very simple:
1.) We have seen drastic reductions in the occurrence of just about every disease for which vaccination has been widespread for a significant amount of time. Some like Polio have been practically eradicated where the vaccine is prevalent and Smallpox has been completely eradicated.
2.) When people stop vaccinating against a sickness those sicknesses make a resurgence. This is currently happening with Measles in areas where larger groups of people do not vaccinate.
3.) Every major health organization, medical association, and medical journal, EVERY SINGLE one without exception endorses vaccines. To posit that all these people are part of a huge conspiracy is frankly ridiculous.
4.) Whatever your beliefs in Hashem are, the one thing you can’t dispute is that the natural world without modern medicine is a brutal and terrible place; and yes, he does create physically imperfect babies and allows for people to improve on his creations through medical science. Visit the Children’s ward in any hospital or look at the rates of child mortality in countries where vaccination and modern medicine are not prevalent. Again, the natural world without modern medicine is a brutal and terrible place to live in.
As far as risks yes there are risks, in the same way that there are risks to wearing a seat-belt in a car, or having electricity in your home. There are risks to taking any kind of proactive approach to anything at all. If you DO something-anything you create some risk. However not doing anything will cause a lot more harm.
These are facts.
OURTorah, good point.
Anti-vaxxers, have you every seen the permanent and life altering effects of polio on a person? My mother had to live the city in the summer because of the fear of getting polio. If you polio is dead, it still exists in other parts of the world and if it comes to USA or Israel, are you ready to accept responsibility for your children getting polio or its terrible effects? I would not and could not.
Check put the FDA’s website. It states “Vaccination is Medication”.
Why are we medicating our healthy children?? I asked that to a doctor. The response was ” You are just the parent. However, we are the medical profesionals & we decide if your child is well or sick”. Thats when I started doing research & realized there is another whole side & good reasons why people may not want to vaccinate. I consider vaccines to be very unsafe. Too many risk factors! As a parent it should be my decision and my decision only whether or not I am willing to take the risks with the bodies of my children. After all, I brought them into the world and I am responsible for their wellbeing.Medication can be prophylactic or therapeutic.
“Vaccination is Medication”.
Why are we medicating our healthy children??Stop with that stupid semantics argument. If the FDA put out a statement saying “vaccines are technically vegetables,” you would be fine with them?
Bottom line is that they are a thing with properties and characteristics, and they serve a purpose. What you call them is irrelevant.
I also think the doctor’s response was pretty dumb.
Kavod Habriot,
It’s preventative medicine. It’s the reason the rates of many deadly illnesses such as Polio have become rare or practically disappeared in the US and other countries where vaccines are prevalent. As I said in my earlier post these are facts. Driving your child to school or putting them into a vehicle involves risk, should we not mandate that parents drive their children or otherwise have their children transported to school if this is possible for them? Vaccination involves risk as does sending your children to school or using electricity or gas to heat your home in the winter.
You know what else is risky? Living in a place where due to people not vaccinating your babies are susceptible to Polio, Measles and other deadly infections that wouldn’t exist any longer if everyone vaccinated.
“As a parent it should be my decision and my decision only whether or not I am willing to take the risks with the bodies of my children. After all, I brought them into the world and I am responsible for their wellbeing.”
And I am responsible for the well-being of my children. Therefore I choose to limit their exposure to dangerous things such as unvaccinated people. And that is MY right. And don’t you dare tell me that I must allow my children to be exposed to your unvaccinated children.
Why is anyone trying to use logic with people who are completely closed off to listening to logic.
@apushatayid Can’t speak for the others, but it’s a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine to argue a position I know I’m right about.
I hear you.
Sariray – I applaud your courage in attempting to reason with some very antagonistic, angry, and closed-minded posters. You are the inspiration for this post. Although I have a Ph.D. in research and am the mother of nine children who have had a number of these childhood diseases, I’d like to remind us all that the heart of the debate (no, this is not about the world being round or flat, but bear in mind that for a very long time, society and scientists believed that the world was flat) is the risk/benefit ratio. If you have done due diligence in reviewing all the vaccine literature, and you have some knowledge of research design and statistical inference, it is clear that the research is, at best, inconclusive. More importantly, for a child that is vaccine-injured and for his/her parents, the vaccine was 100% harmful. Most childhood diseases that have supposedly been eradicated follow cyclical patterns and when there is an outbreak, the risks are minimal and occur for children whose health has been compromised. As far as vaccine risks, it is dishonest and/or delusional to deny that they don’t exist- see vaccine inserts, vaccine ingredients, the CDs’s “unavoidably unsafe” statement, VAERS’s accounts of vaccine injury, as well as the vaccine literature. If a medical protocol prescribed for HEALTHY children involves health risks, parents should have the right to refuse it. Period. And, no, they should not be required to move to Guatemala – they should be considerate and keep their children away from others when ill (measles symptoms (fever, hacking cough) occur before actual contagion which occurs four days before and four-five days after the rash onset). You are free to continue to demonize parents who chose not to vaccinate (they not anti-vaccines, they are pro-health- education and choice) but know that most of these parents, who have to swim upstream and against the tide, are better informed about vaccines than you are, and love their children as much as you love yours. May all yiddishe kinderluch (and their families) always be healthy.
People are blaming Outbreaks on Unvaccinated when it could be the VACCINATED who are causing the outbreaks! Per Vaccine Inserts, Newly Vaccinated children can shed the virus and should be kept away
from immune-suppressed people for six weeks.
There is also an article in Science Magazine entitled Measles Outbreak traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient!
So stop blaming outbreaks on Unvaccinated when it could be the Vaccinated causing the outbreak!dbrim and dooomsday,
Do you have Rav that you ask Shaiis to or is this too important to ask?dbrim, what is your Ph D in? Medicine?
How can there be viral shedding from a dead vaccine? Why do you anti-vaccine people speak falsehood?
I haven’t posted on here in years but I feel like I need to speak up. One of my children was born with a kidney issue. She has one kidney that doesn’t work well. For this, we give her a preventative antibiotic, a prophylactic to prevent her getting infections. Before we started this, she was getting infections way too often and that could be dangerous for her. So now, we give antibiotics to an otherwise overall healthy child in order to prevent infection. It is the same with vaccines. It is a preventative medication you are giving your child to prevent diseases and infections which can otherwise be dangerous.
W3DCB: How can there be viral shedding from a dead vaccine? Why do you anti-vaccine people speak falsehood?
You are wrong. Some vaccines, like the measles vaccine, contain LIVE viruses. And the Vaccine Inserts say that
that the newly vaccinated should stay away from immune-suppressed for 6 weeks because of viral shedding.
And you should apologize for calling me a Liar.
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