Mysterious Gemstones?

1. Pagan nonsense
2. No
3. Rav Hirsch on Tetzaveh
4. See above

Rabeinu Bachya, parashas tetzaveh, citing book of gemstones by aristotle. However scholars attribute the work to ‘pseudo-aristotle’. The use of stones is mentioned in a few hebrew medieval medicinal texts, some of which were recently published. Their use was part and parcel of standard medical practice of the time. Claims of pagan origin or imitating non jews have a basis in ignorance of the facts and rationalist (ie haskalah) ideology.

@rightwriter

The Gemara in Shabbos is in the context of folk remedies, like wearing a scary mask to scare away diseases or healing amulets. Most Rishonim agree that the remedies aren’t actual cures, but psychological calming devices that we allow on Shabbos because of the placebo effect.

See the MAHARSHA on Baba Basra who says that the Gemara about Avrohom Avinu having a healing stone. The Gemara says that when he was niftar, Hashem put the power of the stone into the sun. The MAHARSHA explains that it’s a moshol. Avrohom Avinu had the knowledge of how to heal people and after he was niftar, Hashem gave the sun a certain koach that people will be healthy by spending time in the sunlight.

Ritva (AZ 28b) And with respect to stones that are known to have a natural segullah [to heal] it would appear that their use is permitted even by monks and minim [the subject under discussion is that a ‘min’ may not be permitted to heal people with incantations, lest they credit his healing to the AZ he promotes. Likewise all other healing modalities that people dont understand. Regular herbs and drugs are permitted. The Ritva rules here that ‘stones’ are in the latter category, being a staple like herbs.] This is the only direct reference to the use of herbs that I have seen in any Rishon.
WRT placebo, again only one reference (Rambam Laws of AZ 11:11) If someone is bitten by a scorion or snake, it is permitted to recite an incantation [lachash] over the wound in order to calm the patient and fortify him, even though incantaions do not help, since the patient is critically ill, it is permitted in order to prevent him becoming insane. [Rambam is of the opinion – a solitary authority in this respect – that incantations are forbidden by Toirah Law. However, in an instance of life and death, they may be used. Many of his commentators mention the efficacy of placebo in this instance. The Shulchan Oruch quotes Rambam verbatim, even though he accepts the majority opinion that incantations are permitted, and places this instance in the context of being used in Shabbos – a rather unsatisfactory resolution (because he has given much simpler examples elsewhere).]
At all events Ys’ explanation of the Gemara is in the best tadition of the haskalah, and his claims of sources in multiple Rishonim require hard evidence, rather than vague generalities. The hundreds of responsa right up to the first world war testify that all sorts of energy medicine were halachically accepted, and were used exactly like regular medicine (ie herbs, ointments, tinctures).
In fact, just for the record, innoculations (as vaccines were called during the eighteenth-nineteenth century) is repeatedly described as a segullah (!) which, since it is of doubtful efficacy, and only preventative, may not be injected in Shabbos.

@rightwriter Rav Hirsch ZT”L discusses the 12 stones of the Choshen. What makes you think they were selected because of healing properties?

I did a bit of Googling. I was hard pressed (read: could not) to find a single website about gemstone therapy and crystal healing that was not all about Eastern avodah zara. The whole concept is riddled with things like “reiki” and “chakras”, often subtly hidden behind innocent sounding nonsense phrases like “body energy” and “flows of power”.

This is so obvious that it should not need saying. But the fact that Hashem chose to command us to use certain gems does not tell us anything about their medicinal properties. Who are we to make any assumptions about why Hashem tells us to do anything?

There are mesoros for segulah/spiritual remedies for things; women have a mesorah in blei gissen, for instance. Does anyone have a mesorah for holding or wearing gems as a segulah? If not, why do it?

Energy healing is riddled with avodah zara, including hisgashmius haboreh – they believe that the “universal energy” is Hashem r”l, snd that it can be channelled, directed… it’s perforce not infinite.

My rebbe Rav Belsky once told me about a certain respected posek who allowed “practitioners” to literally ask the “kochos” for help in healing their patients prior to doing whatever it is they do. Rav belsky summarily referred to him as a “crackpot”. Unfortunately, the Yeshiva world is not free of avodah zara. Boruch Hashem, we have gedolei yisroel who have warned us for decades to steer clear of energy healing; only recently have some misguided people fallen for it.

I’m shocked at the matter-of-fact assertion that the refuos in chazal are based on folk wisdom; who besides maskilim has ever said that?…tosfos says that we don’t use them because nishtanu hateva; that’s the majority opinion of the rishonim if i remember correctly. Chazal had a mesorah for scientific knowledge.

@AviraDeArah I didn’t say that Chazal’s refuos were based on folk remedies, I said that a Rishon did. Which is absolutely not problematic to say in any context. For that matter, the Gemara discusses many many strange sounding refuos, especially in Mesechtas Gittin. But I don’t recall any of them mentioning gemstones in particular. So it sounds to me, that when Rabbeinu Bechaye discussed the healing properties of the gems in the Choshen, he was basing it off of common knowledge.

@rightwriter And the reason I said that you had an agenda is because you asked very specific questions which you already had answers to that you only mentioned once people responded in a way contrary to the answers you had in mind.

@rightwriter I answered all of your questions in the second comment on this thread. Your additional questions about Avrohom Avinu and the Nachas Nechoshes I also answered. What did I miss?

@rightwriter Rav Hirsch speaks about the specific stones, as do several other meforshim. I don’t have any seforim in front of me, so I suggest you look it up. I’ve never heard of the stones significance being for healing before reading the Rabbeinu Bechaye quoted in a link above.

I too have been inspired by this thead, I am starting a website selling stones with the haskama of Pinchas Taylor Barnum

Hi rightwriter! Perhaps a few true stories will give you the proper perspective on this.
1) When I was in Ohr Sameach, they warned us not to learn Kabbalah. They said it is silly to work on Nistar before you finish Nigle. (Nigle means all of Shas both Bavli and Yerushalmi along with all 4 chalakim of Shulchan Orech and understanding all of the main poskim = Shach, Taz, etc.) Of course, some individuals decided to ignore that Psak. The results were disaster. Some of them went to Breslov and got involved with the whole mess that occurred there.
What’s that got to do with gemstones? Good question. The reason why we avoid Kabbalah is because (as the song says), “When you believe in things you don’t understand, it’s superstition.” Superstition can easily become Avoda Zara.
The big problem with something that is similar to Avoda Zara (like Yoga) is that ORTHODOX Jews have not violated the prohibition of Avoda Zara for thousands of years. Therefore, we don’t have a clear definition of what is or is not Avoda Zara. For instance, is a Sun Salutation Avoda Zara? After all, the original meaning of the movement was part of a Hindu worship that involved saluting the god of the sun. I asked this question to multiple rabbis. They all told me they don’t know. There is no gemorra that discusses Sun salutes. Why not? Because when the gemarra was written ORTHODOX Jews would never do something like that. The Shayla never came up. Similarly with gemstones (or crystals). Are they being used to cast spells? Invoke Occult powers? Would they be considered witchcraft? Magic? Any of the above is punishable with death according to the Torah. We don’t know. If you ask a Mekubal, they will tell you that most likely all of these “good luck charms” are worthless. The only thing that usually results from them is that the person using them violates some very serious Torah prohibitions.
Therefore, we stick to halachah. Unless you can find an HALACHIC source for doing something or not doing something, you can safely ignore it.
2) In the course of my travels, I met a Ba’al Tshuva whose mother owned a gemstone store. He told me that it is all sales hype. I suggest you stop trying to understand it beyond that.
3) Here’s a story about how not knowing what you are doing when it comes to Nistar can have tragic consequences. This story is from Shmuel Auerbach (the son of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach). He said that at one time there was an amulet (kameiah) in Yerushalayim. This Kamaiah was allowed to be carried in a Reshus Harabim on Shabbos because a psak halacha had been given that it was known to be effective in curing people. Apparently it had been written by the Taz. It was once given to a Sofer to help him with an illness. This sofer assumed that the Kamaiah had some type of shaimos of angels or of Hashem written in it. The rule with a Kamaiah is that once someone opens it and looks inside, it stops working. He felt that this didn’t matter since he could just copy whatever shaimos were written there and make a new one. He opened it. It said, “in the zechus of the X times that I learned this Tosafos in Chulin which enabled me to get the correct psak, may the person who wears this Kameaih be healed.” Needless to say, the sofer could not duplicate that and the kamaiah stopped working. Think of all the people who could have been healed with that Kamaiah? One person decided that they were smarter than everyone else and ruined it. Similarly with gemstones, I would guess that there are lots of little details that can make things go very wrong.

For instance, wearing a ruby during pregnancy to prevent miscarriage. Great idea because it is mentioned in halacha. Or maybe if you don’t have this mesorah, it’s considered like New Age Avoda Zara? Highly unlikely you will find a Rabbi willing to pasken this shayla. Is it possible that a Sefardia whose mother wore a ruby while pregnant receives schar for doing a mitzvah while a BT who was influenced by New Age wearing a ruby receives the death penalty? Could it be that the same action results in a radical difference in the Din that depends on your Kavannah? A scary thought as we approach the Yom HaDin! Best advice is don’t mess around with the metaphysical side of Judaism if you don’t have the mesorah.

Tamim Tiyeh Im Hashem Elokecha!
Kesiva V’chasima Tova.

@rightwriter That’s a whole divrei Torah you’re asking for. There’s literally libraries written about the specific significance of every material Hashem told us to use for the Mishkan. Zahav Tahor, Shoham, T’cheiles, Tola’as Shani, Sheis, Argaman, etc. I suggest you look up Rav Hirsch on Shemos, there’s basically a whole sefer about each and every thing in the Mishkan and what it represents.

@rightwriter Some of them yes. I don’t think he details each and every stone. It’s still the most comprehensive pshat on the materials used in the Mishkan and Beis HaMikdash that I’ve ever seen.

I’m not sure why you are dismissive of Rabeinu Bachya. The idea if the physical power of gemstones is accepted by mainstream poskim, hence the popularity of even tekumah and rubies, even among people who don’t generally go for the latest segulah fads.

@daas-yochid I’m dismissive of Rabbeinu Bechaye as a source to state that one can, in contemporary times, use gemstones to heal or protect from injury or illness. If you read what is written, he seems to imply that the healing properties are based on the knowledge of the time, and that Teffilah and Torah work better as a medicine. I don’t know of any major poskim, mainstream or otherwise, that promote gemstone healing. If there were, I doubt Or Emunah would be forced to resort to that single shakey “haskamah” I mentioned earlier.

@CHOOSID That, of course, is a gem that has wonderful healing properties.

Based on a שיור i heard from rabbi yisral rissmen it would seem that its a form of עבודה זרה

@rightwriter That’s a good question. I do know that some Sephardim (Syrians in particular I think) are very into using red as an anti-ayin hora device, red string in particular. But I don’t know if this is something based on minhag or halacha, or if it’s just a custom picked up from the goyim.