June 8, 2022 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #2094661
Mask mandates are gone across the vast majority of the US, and we’ve found ourselves in a new normal where you tend to see two extremes: people going without masks, and people wearing N95s. Presumably those wearing N95s are doing so out of fear of catching Covid or other diseases. My question – why should these people continue to be discouraged from wearing N95 masks with exhalation valves? Having the valve is cleaner, safer, and more healthy for the wearer.June 8, 2022 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #2094692ujmParticipant
Who is discouraging exhalation valves? (And what is their reasoning for doing so?)June 8, 2022 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #2094696
No one is discouraging these people, they are just making a fool out of themselves.June 8, 2022 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #2094698
The same people who wear these masks are the same chevra who have vaccination parties and the same guys who cry about climate change. It’s funny to see these die-hard fir ekn mentshen who still wrap their faces up with these ridiculous muzzles.June 8, 2022 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2094752jackkParticipant
You think it’s funny that people, who you have no idea their medical situation , or their families or workplaces, are wearing n95 masks for protection?
Would you laugh when they die too? Or got deathly ill? Or even moderately? Or lose their sense of smell and taste?
Would you laugh at the yidden who still are severely restricted due to Covid?
Do not judge other people who are trying to protect themselves.
Maybe you should also wear one.June 8, 2022 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #2094757
first are these commercial or medical? commercial are not the right ones.
2nd, one common use of N95 is for people near someone immunocompromised or elderly. In this case, you would need a 2-way protection.
3rd, there are enough people around who use them and also those who should even if they don’t (elderly), and settings where enough people use it, like medical, so you would need to wear/change different masks.
4th, just because many people do not use, doe not mean you should not be courteous towards them.
I understand, though, if you have to sit whole day with Bigbochur and chaverav, you may want to wear big exhaust, dark glasses, and noise-cancelling headphones.June 8, 2022 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #2094760Yserbius123Participant
The pro-COVID crowd has a difficult time separating things health officials have said two years ago with more up to date things they are saying today. That’s probably why they claim that the communication about masks is “confusing” as they think that something said by Fauci in February of 2020 is still nogeya despite him having explicitly retracted in multiple times.
The valve mask thing was said in mid-2020. I believe it was retracted later that year. So if you’re wearing an N95 or KN95 mask, it’s fine if there’s a valve on it. However, valved masks are more expensive to manufacture so you don’t see them often (or at all).June 9, 2022 7:58 am at 7:58 am #2094904CTLAWYERParticipant
My eldest daughter had to fly to Spain two weeks ago. She asked me for some of the N95 masks with exhalation valves as she has found wearing the regular ones while sleeping or for more than 4 hours hampers her breathing.
She went through TSA checkpoints and the gate at JFK wearing the mask with exhalation valve, no Problem.
BUT, as she was seated and the cabin crew came through, she was Informed that Iberia (as part of IBG Group) does not permit N95 masks exhalation valves on flights as germs can spread through the exhaled breath. Daughter said this was the only type that she had. Airline offered her a surgical style mask. Daughter, took he surgical style mask and put it over the N95 with valve.
When the lights were turned off for the overnight sleep portion of the flight, she removed the surgical mask.
She has since written a letter to Iberia asking for their rationale, as this 8+ hour flight had two meal services and drink service where masks were removed to eat and drink.
Curious what the answer will be, if there is one.
She flew home private on a client’s G650 and choice of mask was not an issueJune 9, 2022 7:59 am at 7:59 am #2094903
jackk I’m not sure if you have realised after 2 years that these muzzles don’t actually help anything, punkt fakhert they actually cause way more problems. They just cause you to constantly breathe in your own oxygen that your lungs have already released. The appearance of a surgical mask also creates unnecessary fear for our children and already mentally damaged and vulnerable elderly. Many people will use the same mask for u to 4-5 weeks so they’re only breathing in their own germs. So yes it is hilarious that some people still choose to clog their faces up with this trash.June 9, 2022 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2094970
“first are these commercial or medical? commercial are not the right ones.”
“2nd, one common use of N95 is for people near someone immunocompromised or elderly. In this case, you would need a 2-way protection.”
Maskim. To make my OP clear, I’m not talking about visiting someone in the hospital or a nursing home where building masking policies are still in effect, or davka going to sit with your sick, immunocompromised grandma. I’m talking about those who wear masks in the grocery store or train where others are not masked, or those who are still masking to take walks or bike rides outside even when not in close contact with others.
“3rd, there are enough people around who use them and also those who should even if they don’t (elderly), and settings where enough people use it, like medical, so you would need to wear/change different masks.”
You need to change out masks frequently anyway. So why not keep some with valves for going to places where many or most are unmasked anyhow? I don’t see how this is an objection to my OP.
“4th, just because many people do not use, doe not mean you should not be courteous towards them.”
Where do you find me to be discourteous?June 9, 2022 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2094961
“Who is discouraging exhalation valves? (And what is their reasoning for doing so?)”
I don’t know about a “who”, but the following are my observations:
1. When out and about, I see a lot of N95s worn, but none with valves.
2. If you do a Google search for N95 masks/respirators with valves, all of the top results are articles talking about how bad valves are. This is clearly intentional.
3. Many mask mandates specifically forbade masks with valves due to CDC guidance, and this guidance has not been updated even though most mask mandates are gone.June 9, 2022 10:33 am at 10:33 am #2094976
The guidelines are meant for What is best for the public interest. For the best personal advice, ask a physician. The people who are just following the guidelines without any other medical input, are too blind to be given the best advice.June 9, 2022 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2094978
“That’s probably why they claim that the communication about masks is “confusing” as they think that something said by Fauci in February of 2020 is still nogeya despite him having explicitly retracted in multiple times.”
I work in a field where complex, rapidly changing, and frequently vitally important information is communicated to the general public. When the public is confused or misunderstands the information and guidance, or even when leaders who received the information and have action plans fail to act appropriately and then try to blame their own failures on “poor communication”, we see that as our responsibility, and work to improve how we communicate that information. The communication of Covid-19 information and guidance by government agencies at every level and political or non-political bent throughout this pandemic was an abjectly shameful, disgraceful failure, and it is chutzpah to turn around and blame the general public for that.
“The valve mask thing was said in mid-2020. I believe it was retracted later that year.”
Show me, or give me search terms that would allow me to find this retraction. And if you’re correct, it is exhibit 3948593425 of the poor communication of guidance. I’ve searched a few times and information is either vague or recommends against valves, as it protects the wearer but allows unfiltered exhalation into the environment. And, despite your phantom retraction, mask mandates that expired as late as Spring 2022 (and even current mandates per CTLAWYER) continued and continue to forbid N95s with valves.June 9, 2022 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2094986
“The guidelines are meant for What is best for the public interest. For the best personal advice, ask a physician.”
What if the physician’s opinion is against what the public guidelines recommend or mandates demand?June 9, 2022 11:42 am at 11:42 am #2095016
If the physician thinks the patient should deviate from the guidelines, than that is what the patient should do. In a general sense, that is a lot of the thinking when the guidelines are drawn up.June 9, 2022 11:42 am at 11:42 am #2095018
In all fields of life, mandates have legal and technical implications. Managing compliance is a basic life skill. I’m not sure of the overall question here.June 9, 2022 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #2095025
Both of your responses make sense, and in a sane world my question would be superfluous. We are not living in a sane world, unfortunately.June 9, 2022 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #2095034
Questioning the insane, is a futile exercise. What should the professionals do? They could only put their work out there, and wish that it reaches the sane without being misconstrued. As a whole, we often forget how much less confused we are then the general public. We really have no business getting sidetracked in their insanity.June 9, 2022 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2095096
“4th, just because many people do not use, doe not mean you should not be courteous towards them.”
“Where do you find me to be discourteous?”
Lol, I totally missed your point on this one – still recovering from Shavuos sleep deprivation it seems. I can see how people would hold like that, though אם כן, אין לדבר סוףJune 9, 2022 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #2095198
> your sick, immunocompromised grandma.
I suggest being careful with your healthy grandma, don’t wait H’V until she gets sick. For one, under mild conditions, you can be in N95 and the grandma may enjoy your visit without. As in Bava Basra – when 1 roof is higher than the other, the top one has to build the wall not to see the lower one. In Roman/British/US law, the lower one would have to protect yourself.June 9, 2022 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #2095199
>> FIRST ARE THESE COMMERCIAL OR MEDICAL? COMMERCIAL ARE NOT THE RIGHT ONES.”
> Why not?
My understanding is that medical standards call for different filtration. Masks include special materials, such as electrostatic layer. I did not study this in depth. Look it up.
Overall, I agree that it looks like there are enough cases where wearing a valve makes sense. Maybe worth to revisit the original message. Tzarich Iyun.June 10, 2022 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #2095379Yserbius123Participant
@Avram-in-MD Other than the initial first weeks of confusion around COVID at what point was the communication “Wear masks as much as possible” at all confusing?June 10, 2022 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #2095425
“Other than the initial first weeks of confusion around COVID at what point was the communication “Wear masks as much as possible” at all confusing?”
Back in October 2020 you started a thread mocking the “confused” (skeptics or critics of the policies or mandates du jour), because you deemed yourself informed. In that thread, you wrote things like:
“If you wear a mask it doesn’t stop you from getting a virus, it stops me from getting the virus that you may unknowingly have!”
This is incorrect. Especially if you were going around wearing a N95 with an exhalation valve because you thought something had been “retracted” after 2020.
“Scientists and doctors figured out that the virus mostly travels through spittle. If I am wearing a mask and infected spittle lands on it, it is very likely that I will at one point touch it and receive the virus.”
This is incorrect. The primary mode of transmission appears to be via respiratory fluids, not spittle. And infection can occur when these droplets or aerosols are breathed in, not just via the hands.
” I am so much happier knowing that I will not get infected when I go to shul or the supermarket!”
This is incorrect. You can indeed still be infected, as many high-compliant folks have been.
“If everyone would wear masks, fear of infection would be much less and we would all be able to socialize normally.”
This is incorrect. High compliance does not reduce fear and promote normal socialization. In fact, the opposite seems true. Etc. ad nauseam.
Bottom line, if you are getting your information from “experts” or government authorities, they are doing a terrible job communicating accurate risk assessments, uncertainty, and scientifically correct information.
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