January 4, 2021 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1935194
Not sure why people have this idea to get nannies or leaving a cleaning lady in your house by themselves
You get what you pay for and if the person is being paid less than what the mother is making then she will do a less thorough job (besides the fact that they don’t really care about you they just want the money and will leave in a heartbeat if someone else pays more)
This goes for daycares too but at least the daycare has references from lots of happy parents whereas a nanny can only really deal with one family at a timeJanuary 4, 2021 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1935202Reb EliezerParticipant
My son put cameras into his house.January 4, 2021 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1935209meir GParticipant
i dont have one , but is it fair to say that most are pretty loyal housekeepers & care givers?January 4, 2021 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1935214Amil ZolaParticipant
I often wonder what kind of background check people do on nannies. Do parents check to see if the potential nanny is currently certified in CPR for kids, first aid? And why wouldn’t you have cameras if you have a housecleaner or baby sitter alone in your residence???January 4, 2021 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1935282commonsaychelParticipant
Forget CPR and the rest, why would you trust your precious nechomas to a shiksa?January 4, 2021 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1935302
” why would you trust your precious nechomas to a shiksa?”
Because many of those “shiksas” as you mindlessly refer to non-jewish women, are much better trained in child-care and willing to work hard to assist working parents or those with large families. They are not substitute parents but in many cases are critical to the ability of those parents to earn a parnassah and give individual time to each of their children. Obviously, if there is a responsible baas yisroel who is equally well-trained and willing to work the long hours, than that would be ideal.January 4, 2021 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1935311
As I’ve said in the past your saychel isn’t so commonJanuary 4, 2021 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1935313
“are much better trained in child-care and willing to work hard to assist working parents or those with large families.“
How so? Did they get a degree in child care? Even still there’s no comparison if a kid is so kvetchy between a loving mother and the best nannyJanuary 4, 2021 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #1935325
CA: Again, in a perfect world, a nanny or child care assistant wouldn’t be necessary and parents could take of all their kids’ needs. A loving mother and father are ALWAYS the best nanny. However, in many cases thats not today’s real world (we could debate why on another thread) so for many families help is necessary. Likewise, relative few frum young women seek out the formal training for child care (not a college degree) which are prerequisites for most agencies who do the background checks on child care assistants they place. If you are talking about simply hiring a young woman off the street with no training, than obviously thats a problem whether she is jewish or non-jewish.January 4, 2021 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1935331
People choose where they draw their lines. Some stop at having a sitter, some stop at a non jewish sitter. Why anyone would hand over their child to a non jewish or non observant sitter is beyond me. But it depends on each person’s line in the sand.January 4, 2021 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1935332
But regarding the actual topic, I do think cameras is a must, and cpr, first aid, references and fluency in the child’s language.
However, i disagree that lower pay gets you lower quality when it may be a skill that the worker enjoys but the mother doesn’t. A cleaning lady may make a third of what i make, but will definitely do a better job than me, even if she’s only mediocre.January 5, 2021 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1935336☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I don’t like this thread.
I think that right after a family suffers from a nanny causing a brain injury, it’s not the right time to discuss the wisdom of having a nanny.
I similarly didn’t like the fire safety discussion in the immediate aftermath of a family suffering from a tragic fire.
There have been other similar threads on the heels of a tragedy, and it somehow feels to me that the victim is being blamed.January 5, 2021 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1935427
DY. I certainly wasn’t aware of any recent news page story linked to the OP and I suspect others weren’t either. I don’t think anything said here was meant to target or in any way criticize the behavior of any family suffering a tragedy such as you suggest.January 5, 2021 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1935424
Sorry, i had no idea that happenedJanuary 5, 2021 11:02 am at 11:02 am #1935453☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I wasn’t trying to blame either of you, just that the thread comes out as insensitive IMHO.January 5, 2021 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1935474
Agree, if either of us had known about whatever incident you are referencing or if the OP had used the incident as the basis for the thread. I presume the Mods thought it was OK or maybe they too weren’t aware of the connection you are making.January 5, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1935487
I’m sorry 😞
I wasn’t thinking of the sensitivity I was wondering why people have them if this is what happens
Again I’m sorryJanuary 5, 2021 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1935533theroshyeshivaParticipant
DY is entirely correct. The whole thread comes off as insensitive.
Many families need a nanny. CA- you can judge from your soapbox but it won’t make you correct.
KAH the tzibbur has large families with large needs and extra hands facilitate raising yidishe neshomos in a happy healthy home. Having a “goyte” in the home is nothing new, it was common in prewar Europe. These women are hard working, their pay is minimum wage since they have no degree, it doesn’t speak to how hard they actually work and how much most of them care for our children. We owe them a debt of gratitude on the whole for doing so much for our families. This news story is the exception.January 5, 2021 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1935584
I also think there are two entirely separate tracks being addressed in respond to the OP. There are non-Jewish “nannies” placed by specialized agencies, many of whom are live-in and care for children on an as needed basis, assist in virtual learning etc. such while the parents are at work or on travel. They are fully documented, well-trained and well-paid. There are also non-jewish child-care aides who come to the home a few hours a week to help clean, take the younger kids for a walk etc and generally earn a minimum wage. Two totally different worlds and raise totally separate issues.January 5, 2021 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #1935616
I think its disgusting that you automatically assume any non jewish lady is a terrible person- there are lots of normal, caring people out there also.Also, I dont think you have to worry about your nanny harming a child if you do some research into it, maybe 1000 years ago you shouldve been worried, but just like non jewish barbers are now allowed b/c of dinah d’malchusah dinah, i would apply that here also and allow you to have a non- jewish nanny. Obviously, call up references first and be responsible with who you choose, but dont be so ignorant to not trust anyone.
And don’t just say that its a terrible thing to have a nanny because a child needs parents, since you have no idea of the situation. the mother might be busy making money for the family and need someone to help clean, cook, take care of kids, etc, or there may be othe reasons you dontknow. And even with a nanny, most parents are still very in the picture.
just think about what you say and how you judge people before you post.January 5, 2021 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1935619
Shmili – take a chill. Nobody said they are bad people. Some of you cannot handle hearing that sometimes a frum person fits the job better without freaking out in a liberal melt down.
We had a photographer at our kid’s wedding that was not familiar with frum life. Ya know what? She missed a lot of the wedding. It was a dumb choice. And I’m not talking about the photography, im talking about familiarity with the customs. Sometimes a job requires a person familiar with frumkeit, and sometimes a job requires a frum person. And guess what? That’s not a racist comment.
Personally, having witnessed many intwractions of sitters/nannies whatever with kids, i wouldn’t do it, and i don’t understand how someone else can.January 5, 2021 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1935626
First of all, I’m actually a republican.
second of all, I actually agree with all of your points, I was mainly responding to commonsaychel who said “Forget CPR and the rest, why would you trust your precious nechomas to a shiksa?”
And I was also answering the multiple people who said that people should not have nannies because they themselves should be taking care of their kids.January 5, 2021 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #1935629
What problem could you possibly have with that statement? I don’t care if the person has the highest degrees in pediatric meficine, I still wouldn’t want her in charge of my kid daily. A kid needs to have torah and hashkofos modeled. Why in the world would you think that’s a problem?January 5, 2021 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1935631
I’m talking about a situation where a child would have a nanny during the day while their parents are at work making money to support their family, and on Sundays, Shabbos, and nights the parents are home. The nanny may be necessary in this case, and maybe there is no jewish one available. And again, I’m maskim that in an ideal world the nanny would be a frum yid, but even if the nanny is not jewish, the parents should make sure to model and ingrain torah and hashkafos into the kids whenever they are with them,which is hopefully all throughout dinner and the rest of the night, and the parents should definitely let the kid know that while their nanny may be a very nice and respectable person, she is not like us and you should not be learning your values from her.
But yes, if a child is never with his parents and only with the nanny, that will be a problem not only hashkafically, but for the child’s wellbeing, self-worth, and feeling of love towards their parents.January 5, 2021 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1935637
Syag: Too bad you still cannot understand that many parents absolutely need some level of child-care assistance and there simply aren’t that many frum bnos yisroel willing to step forward to do this kind of work on a regular basis at near-minimum wage. I suspect those parents would be thrilled if they had the option of hiring a young Jewish woman who would care for their kids while offering a model of torah and hashkafah.January 5, 2021 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1935647
GH – i absolutely understand that and don’t indicate otherwise. But too bad that you still don’t understand the extent a person should be going to preserve the spirituality of their house and kids. you seem to see it as disposable in time of great inconvenience. I don’t. As i said before, people draw their lines in the sand. Some will give all their money for more time, some will give all their time for more money. It’s about what drives you. But when we talk about the neshamas of our children, there is no flexibility.January 5, 2021 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1935648
If you needed to buy clothes and couldn’t find anything affordable that fit your level of tznius, would you buy something subpar and lament the lack of availability of affordable appropriate clothes?January 5, 2021 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1935652
Syag: I’d probably learn to sew.January 5, 2021 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #1935654
Then we’re on the same page
😊January 5, 2021 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1935656
SL- you are making 2 assumptions, the first one being that you assume there even is an option for frum child-care for the right price. Im sure you’re from lakewood or somewhere in-town, but believe it or not, there are yidden who live in other places that do not have as many jews. Where I live, and I know in many other OOT communites such as mine, I would doubt there is even one frum girl willing to nanny all day, and even if you would say there is 3, (which in my community, which is not even that small for out of town, I doubt there is), there may be more than 3 families who would need that service. So even for the right price, it might not be possible.
your second assumption is that the family has the money for that. a frum girl would most likely charge more than a non jewish woman, and not everybody can afford that.
So yes, if a family lives in a pace with an option for frum help, and they have the money, they should 100% splurge and pay for that. But if both of those requirements dont both apply, what more can they do- they need someone to watch their kids.
And addressing your comparison to tznius, that is different, because one can always borrow from a gemach or from other people, and you cant borrow a nanny. In addition, tznius is actually a mitzva where someone needs to stretch themselves and go to much further lengths to fulfill then having a frum nanny, which is a nice thing that would definitely help, but the kids would do well even without. Yes, I know people who grew up with a non jewish nanny during the day and are frum ovdei hashem, and part of the yeshivish community. Ask around, I bet you know people who grew up with non- jewish help.January 5, 2021 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1935658
Sy, by the way, I’m really sorry if i come across as really mad and hostile, i just tend to get intense when I’m proving a point. I hope theres no hard feelings.January 5, 2021 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1935662
I am not making any assumptions, i am talking about a value system. You are sure i am from lakewood but I’m not. Where i live there are some frum baby sitters watch kids in their own homes with a bunch of other kids. Other people have a non jewish cleaning lady who babysits in their house. Or baby sitter who cleans. A lot of the moms make only a few dollars more than the cost of the sitter.
I think you have a valid theory, but when you have kids you will see that it’s not about what works on paper.January 6, 2021 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1935578Dr. EParticipant
The Nannie who raised me was well-versed in Shas and that ended up giving me an advantage when my Cheder had its Haschalas Gemara in Pre-1AJanuary 6, 2021 9:15 am at 9:15 am #1935712commonsaychelParticipant
We are a two income household while we had household help and cleaning help we never crossed the line to have a nanny.
When I was a bucher I stayed at distant cousins house in LA when they had a live in, the mother went away for a few days living the kids in the care of the nanny, I watched the nanny when the kids came down to breakfast and she asked ” you makka dah modah ani?’ “Remember to saya da brucha”.
I have a few relatives of mine who are on the Times of London 1000 richest people in the UK and they have household help managed by the family not a live in nanny.January 6, 2021 9:17 am at 9:17 am #1935738anonymous JewParticipant
I would like to add a nonsectarian reminder. Many, if not most sitters are paid off the books. This becomes a very expensive issue when the sitter/nanny suffers an on the job injury and there’s no workers comp. Guess who gets sued? Guess who potentially owes thousands in back payroll taxes ? Guess who has to pay thousands in legal fees?January 6, 2021 10:51 am at 10:51 am #1935784Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
R berl Wein reports that, I think, his father, as a kid, learned about Rosh Hodesh, from their Lithuanian helper.January 6, 2021 11:04 am at 11:04 am #1935820
Anon- yup. Although I have no sympathy about the back taxes issue. If you do something illegal you can’t complain about getting caught.
Common – right! (Is this the first time I’ve agreed with ou?) I have watched non jewish nannies make sure their young charges make a bracha as well. As the child sat in the stroller looking at their tight jeans and almost-a-shirt, listening to conversations they had on the phone that may not be inappropriate but definitely aren’t uplifting. It’s not just about doing the mitzvos, it’s the whole package.
I still remember my son telling me his first grade teacher, who they knew was single, apologized for being grouchy, “sorry, i think im pregnant and don’t ferl so good”January 10, 2021 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #1937252thetruthiseekParticipant
i was skimming thru the thread and noticed a comment from shmilli oongar u commented about haircuts im pretty sure that the issur is the same as 1000 years ago the heter being that theres a mirror in front of you so you can see what the barber is doing. every barber that ive seen has mirrors, so its muttar to get a haircut by a goy. i dont know about dina dmalchusa dina tho.January 10, 2021 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1937262
I’m actually not sure, I remember hearing once that the reason we can get one now is because its illegal for them to kill us, and we dont have to be choshesh that they will. i could be wrong though.
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